VCD w/ standalone DVD player

[dchip]

Spent a few hours this weekend searching for a standalone DVD player that will play my homemade VCD's. I did check the list on the VCD helper site and actually located several of the models that are supposed to work, but my VCD's are not recognized by the players.

My process for creating these, in brief:

1. Compress the edited AVI into MPEG(VCD) using Panasonic or Tsunami encoder, then using Adapetec Easy CD Creator 3.5c (or it might be 2.5c) to burn the MPEG to CD. I am using the steps in Easy CD to make a Data CD and I am using Sony CDR discs. I cannot find a setting in Adaptec to make a VCD in particular. The CD's play perfectly in computers but finding a DVD player that will work has been aggravating and fruitless.

The things that come to mind are:

1. The discs I am using are too much or too little reflective.
2. Adaptec Easy CD is not really burning a VCD but just copying data files.
3. The encoders are not really encoding VCD compliant MPEGs.
4. I need to burn something else to the disc along with the MPEG's to really make it a VCD.

I would love to identify the problem before running out and buying many different brands of discs or considering an expensive package like Media Cleaner. If anyone has any suggestions please post. Thanks.

[wkulecz]

Creating a data CD insures they will not play in stand alone players.

You need the "deluxe" version of ECDC or Nero 5. I've ECDC and recommend Nero as it couldn't be any worse for VCDs and it supposedly can do SVCD.

I've used ECDC deluxe to make a VCD. I did one on CD-R and another on CD-RW media. So far what players (not many) I've tried will either play both or play neither. But it has been claimed that CD-RW will work on some players that can't read CD-R.

--wally.

[CarterTG]

I've tried venturing into the world of VCDs too. My target playback machine was the now obsolete Panasonic A120.

I took some DV footage, edited it through MSP 6.0 and had it render a VCD-compliant MPEG directly. The 5 minute MPEG played fine in MediaPlayer... 352x240 29.97fps.

In the next step, I debated whether the dusty old EasyCD Creator 3.5 Deluxe (retail version) was up to the task. A few online mumbles seemed to indicate that 4.0 had a better/improved VCD module. That was enough reason to upgrade as the prospect of wasting a handful of coasters didn't seem too appealing.

So after Easy CD Creator Deluxe 4.0 was installed, I proceeded to follow its VCD wizard and had a burnt VCD in no time and in painless fashion. The CDR blank was from a CompUSA spindle (silver-dye).

The disc was loaded into the Panasonic, and almost immediately, the display read "Disc Not Recognized". The disc was otherwise readable in the PC, with all the folder architecture there and the .DAT content file that would play when dragged in to MediaPlayer. Alright, maybe it's a case of "you get what you pay for". So I proceeded to repeat the process but with a Memorex CDR (silver-dye).

The Memorex disc was inserted, the Panasonic display showed a row of progress stars, but stopped shy of the last one. ARRRGH!

Alright, maybe it's a brand issue... I bought Sony and Verbatim (blue/green-dye). No luck.

<A HREF="http://www.vcdhelper.com/" TARGET="_blank">VCD Helper</A>'s database DID make mention that success was only possible on that Panasonic with Memorex CDRWs. I had gone this far in my madness, I might as well try CDRWs.

The burn was completed and the moment of truth came... the read-progress stars crawled across and VOILA! It began playing. The result? The picture was definitely nothing to write home about. It played with MUCH better definition on the computer (better software decompressor maybe?). The NTSC bigscreen showed a great deal of blockiness. i.e. Subjects would have one eye semi-legible, and the other eye was a pixelated block.

So the conclusion? --RANT MODE ON--

Disc makers should be shot/punished/tortured (in that order) for never indicating if their spindles are blue/green/silver/gold dye. The superstore sales monkeys are clueless on the contents.

The quality I've seen (albeit only through one player) is bad enough that I question why anyone would want to use VCD as their distribution format.

THIS player is picky enough, which tends to translate that OTHER players would have their own degree of media pickiness. This seems to guarantee that a VCD you hand someone might have a 1 in 10+ chance of successfully playing. Again, not a reliable distribution format. Yes, the newest DVD players will be more capable of playing VCDs, but the installed base isn't likely to upgrade anytime soon.

If a VCD were given to a PC owner, it won't naitively play. Accompanying notes would have to instruct them to locate the right .DAT file within the directory architecture, open up MediaPlayer and drag the file over. Neither quick or easy.

--RANT MODE OFF--

At $2.00+ per CDRW, would I continue tinkering with VCDs? Not likely. I usually buy a box of bulk-loaded VHS tapes in any length I want (5, 10, 20, 30minutes) for about $1.50 each. VHS ensures that ANYONE I hand it to can play it just fine. I'll keep sticking with VHS til DVD-R burners (compatible with set-top DVD players) come down from the bleeding-edge. A DVD-R (NOT DVD-RAM) will have far better widespread compatibility over VCD.

If I knew that I specifically wanted to target some WinTel users, I'd rather just burn a straight MPEG onto CDR with some AUTORUN.INF (and maybe HTML) sleight-of-hand rather than waste time with VCD.

my 2&#162;,


------------------
Carter
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Tyan Tiger 100 rev.F (BX) ATX
Dual PentiumIII 650e CuMine Slot1
Dual 128mb PC100 generic
[C:] 10.2g Seagate ATA66 5400rpm
[D:] 10.1g IBM ATA66 7200rpm
Promise FastTrack66 RAID
[E:] Dual 30.7g Maxtor ATA66 7200rpm DM+
[F:] Plextor 12x10x32x CDRW
Dual SVGA 17" screens
Matrox G400 DualHead AGP 32mb
SBLive PCI
NDC 10/100 PCI
Canopus DV Raptor
USB IntelliEye
FourPoint2000
Windows2000 wo/SP1, MSP 6.0
Canon XL1
Canon GL1

[dchip]

wkelecz, you are right about the data CD. All I have been doing is copying MPEG clips to CDR. Haven't been making VCD's at all. If I didn't feel so bad about the misconception, it would almost be laughable. Anyway, I cannot give up on finally getting me a VCD without trying ECDC 4.0. Dr Mordrid suggested it several weeks ago but I forgot about it. I found this review of it and it certainly sounds like it would work.
http://www.hardware-one.com/reviews.asp?aid=110&page=7

This is page 7 (VCD Creator) section of an extensive review of the software. It seems that very specific file format is required. Also the audio must be just right.

I'll order it later this week and try my burning process all over again. Maybe there is hope yet to make a standalone-compatible VCD at home.

Thanks for the input. CarterTG, I appreciate the extensive comments. I'm going to stay after this thing for a bit.

[Sciascia]

You may want to keep an eye open for the SVCD world. As the encoders have gotten better (Tsunami, BBMPEG) it is possible to get higher quality discs at about the same size. I have mixed feelings on this because my stint with VCD was very short. The nice thing about SVCD is that you can make menus with an authoring pakage (enreach I-Author and phillips). I have been playing with it a bit and though you can use VBR, better results seem to come from CQ or CBR encoding, becuase VBR is hard to limit to the max bit rate with TMPGEnc (SVCD spec is very strict). I think it looks better too. It is also 480*480 rez, so there is more data for your your screen. As for standalone players, I have a Hitachi DVP 250 which plays everything that I throw in it, much too my surprise since I bought it before venturing into this area. For a disc to play properly though, you definitely need the corect file structure which is where authoring sw helps. I have also heard the newest ver of NERO will do SVCD, but has no menu, or atleast it would be difficult to structure one. I wouldn't even know how to create the navigation structure from scratch.

If you do choose I-Auhor, a word of warning using TMPGEnc. You will probably need to demultiplex the file afterwards and remux with the I-Author app. It takes a few moments, but it will not recognize mpg and if you rename the mpg to .mps, it is not written quite the same. I believe here are some data blocks or something inserted and it won't create a disc image properly. It will not degrade the quality at all and is fast.

[Dr Mordrid]

I've been authoring with CDMotion SE and it works great for VCD, VCD2x and SVCD. It's $300 a pop, but that's about $200 less than I-Author. Also a trial version is on the site. A VCD only version, CDMotion CE, is only $80.

http://store.yahoo.com/dvd4u/cdmotion.html

Dr. Mordrid


[This message has been edited by Dr Mordrid (edited 23 August 2000).]

[dchip]

I called and cancelled order for Adaptec ECDC v4. Adaptec makes fine products but taking a look at this CD Motion CE makes me think it might be a better deal. Looks like they have been at this kind of program from their start. Does it work okay with your TMPEGenc clips also?

As for Adaptec, I probably would never use all the bells and whistles in it and it reminds me of that SB Live suite. I want a package that does one job, excellently. Maybe CD Motion CE is it. The last thing I need to confirm with them is that I can upgrade from CE to SE later without paying full price for SE.

[Dr Mordrid]

It works fine with the CBR clips I use. Since the VBR of Tsunami still overruns a bit I've avoided using that mode.

What I find odd is that they removed SVCD from their SE feature list recently while keeping VCD2x. Mebbe something off key I haven't noticed yet? Misstyped update of the page? Dunno...

Hmmmm.... mebbe time for a phone call to the Left coast. I'll let you know what I find out.

Dr. Mordrid

[dchip]

I was informed that if I go from CE to SE within 6 weeks of purchase the upgrade cost is $225.00 so I would get full credit for the CE purchase. I am going to read up on Nero before ordering.