Via KT-600

[Technoid]

It's Time Again!

[Ray Austin]

LOL at Technoid...

Well I don't think I would go as far as to call someone dumb, maybe perhaps inexperienced in dealing with PCI bandwidth issues. I know I have had my fair share, I must have ripped apart my Via 133 machine 20 times or better and it would still crash.

Funky, Via is a great chipset... they give you alot of bang for the buck... but if you are trying to edit video do yourself a big flavor and go with something else. Your knuckles will thank me and the rest of us here.

Think of Via as a bug light.... it looks so beautiful until you get too close and it zaps ya!

[Chrono_Wanderer]

RPFLMAO@Technoid

[Dr Mordrid]

Originally posted by funky-d-munky
"especially if a RAID is involved"

Well thats my point!
The RAID would NOT be involved on the KT-600 as it would be on the southbridge, not taking up any PCI bus bandwidth.
This would easily erase that 15-20% SiS advantage, and then some.

Of corse a i875p with RAID on suthbridge owens all.

fdm;

You have to be one of the densest people I've ever dealt with on this forum. Have you even looked at the the KT-600's connection map? Didn't think so....

http://www.via.com.tw/en/k-series/kt600.jsp

If you look closely you'll see that the PCI bus and the on-chip SATA RAID are both connected to the KT-600's southbridge and that their data path to memory has to cross the same pathway to the northbridge and memory as PATA, audio and all the other other ports and devices.

Think in terms of an LA freeway at 6:00 PM combined with VIA's traditionally crappy PCI implementation bogging down any vidcap and/or audio cards that happen to be installed and you're all set up for a lousy day in the edit bay.

Dr. Mordrid

[KRSESQ]

Enough talk!

TEST!

Kevin

[Greebe]

DIVE DIVE DIVE!!!

[funky-d-munky]

Doc, this is where I'm getting some info.

http://www.digital-daily.com/motherboard/msi-kt6-delta/

"As regards the south bridge, the KT600 offers its entirely new version - the VT8237. While all the modifications to the north bridge were aimed at performance boost, the main focus in developing the new south bridge VT8237 was given to expanding the functionality. In particular, the number of USB ports has been increased from 6 to 8. Also, the VT8237 offers support for two SerialATA channels in which data are not transmitted through the PCI bus but directly via the V-Link. By the way, the V-link has undergone some changes - its bandwidth has been increased (up to 533 MB/s - 8X V-Link). Also, the south bridge VT8237 is compatible to the new-generation north bridges with which it will connect over the Ultra V-Link bus featuring a 1 GB/s bandwidth. "

This seems to offer a performance boost to me. I enjoy the debate in hopes of clarification. The name calling isn't to cool though.
funky

[Elie]

Funky,

In the conclusion of the review they said this...

"For no more than merely six months, the nForce II chipset played its "dirty trick" (in a good sense of the word . Now there is a one-one association of the high-end with a board built on the nForce II Ultra 400 chipset, and the emergence of VIA KT600 failed to change the situation. The only way of spreading the KT600 is through pushing the prices for the chipset down to keep the final retail price for a board under 100 USD. However, as we can see from the MSI KT6 Delta, its price exceeds 120 USD. This is a bit too high, even with MSI's traditionally rich package bundle and additional RAID and Gigabit Lan controllers. "

This would make me a bit nervous especially after seeing the benchmarks that even the Nforce II was way ahead of the game.

Cheers,
Elie

[Dr Mordrid]

Not to mention that we've seen several "new" VIA southbridges since the KT-133's and the problem has persisted in all of 'em, so it's going to take more than another chapter of VIA/PR BS to convince people that they're "reformed".

Dr. Mordrid

[Chrono_Wanderer]

ok, i don't know much about chipsets, so please go easy on me

hmm... just thought of this...

I read somewhere that VIA is going to implement PCI Express for K8 some time next year.

So because PCI Express (serial) is completely different from PCI 2.2 (parallel), is there any change that the "forced" new implementation will help improve the situation?

Ok, serial interconnection allows higher clockspeed... so is PCI Express suitable for RT cards anyways?

(what the hack, I am so lost!)

edit: forget that their drivers suck too... looks like VIA has a lot of stuff to catch up!

[Dr Mordrid]

Yes; PCI Express could well help the situation, but how the VIA implementation will perform compared to solutions by Intel, SiS etc. is another matter.

With the coming of HD editing cards and the increased bandwidth the ones using bitrates higher than HDV's 25 mbit/s may well require we may be in the same situation but at a different bitrate level a year or so from now. In other words SSAD: same s**t, another day.

PCI Express should be great for RT cards.

Dr. Mordrid

[funky-d-munky]

Doc, can you comment on that clip from from the review, esp this part,
"the VT8237 offers support for two SerialATA channels in which data are not transmitted through the PCI bus but directly via the V-Link. By the way, the V-link has undergone some changes - its bandwidth has been increased (up to 533 MB/s - 8X V-Link). Also, the south bridge VT8237 is compatible to the new-generation north bridges with which it will connect over the Ultra V-Link bus featuring a 1 GB/s bandwidth"

It seems to differ completly from what your saying. I would like to know once and for all if southbridge sata raid, (found on i875p and KT-600's) is an advantage?
funky

[funky-d-munky]

Elie, I didn't link to that review as a recomendation of that particular mb or chipset, but to show Dr.M where I got my info that apparently makes me so dense :>(
Except in the relms of exteem O/C'ing and minimal lead in games, I don't think the Nforce 2 has much over it, except a higher price.
funky

[Dr Mordrid]

V-link is the name VIA gives the interlink between the southbridge to the northbridge.

Video data going from a southbridge device, and this includes cards in the PCI slots and data on drives attached to the PATA/SATA drive controllers, has to pass through this interlink to the northbridge and from there to memory for processing then more often than not back again. This amounts to a whole s***load of bits compared to other activities.

This hits a major bottleneck in the VIA KT-xxx chipsets since their interlink bandwidth is much lower than those of other AthlonXP chipsets;

SiS MuTIOL: 1000 MB/s (1200 MB/s w/SiS's single-chip chipsets)

nForce2 HyperTransport: 800 MB/s

VIA V-Link: 533 MB/s

Add this to the screwey way PCI itself is implemented and you should understand why Elie, myself and others are so cautious about the KT-600.

Dr. Mordrid

[Chrono_Wanderer]

hmm... so the PCI issue actually refers to the issue between the southbridge and the northbridge?

so what about the intel and AMD chipsets? any info for those?

thx in advance

Cheers,

Ron