Runaway Prius in California....

[Dr Mordrid]

CJ: yes, the majority were user faults, but that still left a large number of vehicles where something else happened.

Another cause could be cruise controls;

Subaru recalled 128,000 vehicles because of a defect in the cruise control system that could engage full throttle.

in the mid to late 1990's Jeep Cherokee and Grand Cherokee sudden acceleration was caused by a current leakage pathway that resulted in actuation of the cruise control servo. When this happened the engine throttle went to the wide open position. Oopsie.

[gt40]

There's no doubt there will be plenty of people will use Toyota's current situation to blame their incompetence - and it will only add fuel to the media.



P.S. It's really annoying me that a word like 'brake' is misspelled so often - although in Toyota's case, it may be an unintended pun

[Dr Mordrid]

Detroit News....

Not helpful...

Tundra recall expands

Toyota said Tuesday that it will expand a recall announced last year to fix Tundras with frames that could rust and lead to spare tires falling from the vehicle.

The recall will cover the 2000-03 model years in all 50 states.

A Toyota spokesman did not immediately know how many additional trucks would be covered; Toyota is to provide more details.

[cjolley]

P.S. It's really annoying me that a word like 'brake' is misspelled so often

Thanks, I've been staring at that work all through this thread trying to figure out why it looked wrong.

[Dr Mordrid]

My misspelling - didn't notice, sorry. I really do know how to spell brake but was tired.

[jms]

But it seems like half the damn cars i see on the road here are Pirus, and we are not getting the same issues here, it may be environmental or soemthing, but there is more then just toyota's screw up to it.

Isn't it obvious? Only in the USA can someone sue a company because they get served hot coffee etc etc. I'll bet good money the Prius cases have skyrocketed since it got out in the open, even though this has been a potential problem for Toyota for several years, at least since 2007.

[Elie]

despite the recall plaguing Toyota, sales in Canada have gone up.
Interesting.

[gt40]

despite the recall plaguing Toyota, sales in Canada have gone up.
Interesting.

We don't pay attention to the news much.

[gt40]

A couple of point pertinent to this discussion:

First, this apparently from a Toyota Tech:

The gear shift in those cars are actually like a joystick. They return to the same position after being toggled to the desired gear....Plus, the brakes on a Prius aren't brakes until you reach a speed of less than 15mph. At highway speeds, with the pedal depressed, no mechanical action is taking place. What happens is, the electric motor turns in reverse causing the vehicle to slow down essentially making the electric motor a generator. The power that is generated is then stored in the battery pack for acceleration the next time you start off. They call it "regenerative braking". When an emergency situation occurs, the mechanical brakes are supposed to kick in, but only after the vehicle "senses" the driver trying to make a panic stop. They call that brake assist. In this situation, he had no choice but to do what he did. Its a good thing he didn't kill someone or himself. Thank god for the police officer and his instructions!!

Also, on any normal automatic vehicle, the steering lock will NOT engage unless the vehicle is in Park - for obvious safety reasons. If the Prius allows the lock to engage, there are obvious safety concerns here.

[cjolley]

A couple of point pertinent to this discussion:

First, this apparently from a Toyota :

Plus, the brakes on a Prius aren't brakes until you reach a speed of less than 15mph. At highway speeds, with the pedal depressed, no mechanical action is taking place.

If that was true then you couldn't brake when the battery was full.
The regenerative braking adjusts itself to the state of the battery charge.
It is variable, depending on the state of the battery.
It turns off completely if the battery is full because there is no place to send the energy.

We're getting into the realm of an awful lot of things going wrong all at the same time to cause this due to purely mechanical malfunction.

You don't suppose the whole thing runs on one computer do you?
If so and it crashed everything would go haywire.
Single point of failure = bad

[KRSESQ]

It is troubling that nobody seems to be able to figure out why some Toyotas suddenly go insane and try to kill their drivers/passengers. Perhaps the Rise of the Machines has begun.

Kevin

[VJ]

A couple of point pertinent to this discussion:

First, this apparently from a Toyota Tech:

Plus, the brakes on a Prius aren't brakes

Am I the only one thinking: apparently not...

But seriously: if anything, it proves that the designs must be made more fault tolerant and tests more thorough. In aviation, it takes years of investigation and testing before new hardware is allowed. Case in point: a new airplane in the flying club: it has a new type of engine, which is rated well below the expected lifespan (as are specific components). After its currently rated hours it will go back for research and if enough units have been researched and it is deemed ok to lengthen the lifespan, it will get a longer rating (and then the whole story repeats itself). Of course, this explains why many small aircraft still resemble cars from the late 70s-early 80s, but safety above all...

[Dr Mordrid]

You don't suppose the whole thing runs on one computer do you?
If so and it crashed everything would go haywire.

Single point of failure = bad

Usually, yes. Some cars have discrete control circuits and some don't, but often even with a local control module everything still goes back to the main black box for decision making.

[gt40]

I've never seen a vehicle with redundant electronics. Normally they just have a 'failsafe' or 'limp' mode in case of failure.
And the point about not being brakes I'm sure was meant to mean they are not brakes in the classical sense.

[Dr Mordrid]

Time to change practice then. IIRC the initial Volts have redundancy built into some of its systems, but dunno which ones. I'd bet dual computers, both the main and the separate battery controller.