SS-N-22 SUNBURN & SS-NX-26 Yakhont

[SitFlyer]

What working defense does the US have against SS-N-22 SUNBURN & SS-NX-26 Yakhont?

If the current ME situation escalates and the US becomes militarily involved it seems not a happy situation could result.

All anti-ship missiles --> http://www.vectorsite.net/twbomba.html

[Jon P. Inghram]

[Dr Mordrid]

AKA the Phalanx Close-In Weapons System (CIWS);

http://www.navysite.de/weapons/phalanx.htm

The Mk-15 Phalanx CIWS is a fast-reaction, rapid-fire 20mm gun system for short range defense against aircraft or missiles. Each mount consists of three main parts: the white "head" containing the track radar, the gun (six barrels) and below the gun there is the magazin. The gun is able to fire more than 3,000 rounds per minute. These bullets are made of uranium. It's non-radioactive and much harder than steel.

The Phalanx' track radar consists of two radar screens which track the flight path of the incoming missile and also of the own bullets. In the beginning, the track radar was designated Mk-90 but that was changed a couple of years ago and the track radar is now just designated 'Phalanx radar'.

[SitFlyer]

...and how exactly is that going to hit the missile?
Luck?

[Dr Mordrid]

Accuracy. These things lay down a hail of radar precision-guided fire hardly anything can penetrate.

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MK_15_Phalanx

Its follow-up will be a version based on Metal Storm, which can fire up to 1,000,000 rounds/minute using multiple barrels;

Video: http://www.yourdailymedia.com/media/...etal_Storm_Gun

Metal Storm is the biggest advance in gun tech since the cartridge, which it relaces. No moving parts other than the bullet with all-electric firing. It can use one barrel or a hundred, and each barrel is its own magazine.

In addition to Phalanx is the Aegis combat missile system used on US cruisers and destroyers. It can shoot down anything from aircraft to ballistic missiles in space.

[SitFlyer]

I know what the guns do.
Can they really track and shoot down an evading, Mach 2+ missile?
There are tests for that, right?

[Dr Mordrid]

15 years worth, at least. They've shot down not only our stuff but Exocets & many others more advanced than what Iran, Syria etc. are fielding. We even buy Russian missiles for testing against our systems.

Of the two the one that stands the best chance against Phalanx & Aegis is the SS-N-22 SUNBURN because of its speed presuming it gets close before detection. Not so certain if there are airborn radars about, and the US has tons of those in the Med.

[RedRed]

Was the Israeli crusier equipped with this? I thaught that all of their major gunboats were....

Its fitted to British ships, along with seawolf (seawolf is ineffective - remember the exocet in the argentine war? If the argentines had of had more than the 8 missiles they started the war with it could have been very, very different - the developed a model of the exocet that was fired from the back of a comandeered flatbed lorry - during Port Stanleys seige)

It has never been tested in war - rest assured, the russians dont sell the good stuff!

What about that 300 mph torpedo the Iranians showed off a couple of months ago? There is no defence agains that at all.... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4871078.stm

[Dr Mordrid]

It's a super-cavitation torpedo and is nothing new. Basically it's an underwater missile that travels inside a foam of bubbles that pour out its skin & nose, reducing friction with the water.

Germany tested one during WW-II that was based on hydrogen peroxide.

Irans super-cavitation torpedo is more show than go.

Its top end is actually more like 100-150 knots while Russias is 2x that. In any case there are problems with SCT's and simple countermeasures, which is why the US gave up on them.

Problem 1 is a short range, 5 miles or so for Irans. Our sub detection range is many times that. Defense: long before they're close enough to launch they're toast. Our torpedos have a 30 mile range, travel 3x faster than their diesel subs and have very good guidance systems. We also have anti-sub missiles that can kill 'em way out.

Problem 2 is that they're noisy, making the launching subs location known fast. See #1

Problem 3 is that current Iranian SCT's are pretty dumb and not very maneuverable. Evasion: changing depth (subs) and/or turning sharply.

Russias Shkval SCT was designed to give their subs a chance against US hunter/killer subs. On hearing the screws of an incoming US torpedo the Shkval would be launched in a "snap shot" with the aim of forcing the attacker to evade, hopefully cutting the torpedo's guidance wire.

Not really an offensive weapon with a conventional warhead. With a nuclear warhead it becomes a "revenge weapon", hopefully destroying the killer of the launching sub. Used in an attack mode a nuke Shkval would kill both subs because of its short range and the intensity of the nukes shockwave.

Russias Shkval SCT


There are other risks involved; many believe the Kursk was lost testing one. Seems the Russian SCT is potassium based. Potassium reacts with water/water vapor on contact releasing hydrogen. Have one let enough moisture in while on the rack and BOOM

The report stating that it was hit by an errant anti-sub missile fired by the cruiser Peter the Great during an exercise was cover.

[Wombat]

Was the Israeli crusier equipped with this? I thaught that all of their major gunboats were....

Yes, it was. But the system was not turned on at the time. These systems are often kept off (especially in port, or with aircraft arriving/deploying), in case they have a freak accident and auto-target.

[MultimediaMan]

The Israeli ship which was hit had only one CIWS and it was not only an older model (radar-aimed only), but placed in such a way that there was almost no cover for the lazarette (aft deck) on the boat. The missile hit the back of the boat. There is also the question of whether the CIWS was even turned on.

The CIWS Block 5 augments the radar guidance package with an optical tracker and a laser rangefinder. The Radar-only based CIWS had very finicky software: it had an annoying habit of tracking friendly helicopters, regardless of their IFF, because the advancing rotor blades of the helicopters were above the Targetting Velocity Threshold of the software. So until the latest Block came out, the CIWS was placed into standby rather than auto during Flight Operations. The new optical tracker incorporates a shape recognition system which allows better classification of a target. It also allows the gun to manually engage point targets via a joystick and monitor. The Block 5 reportedly has provisions for higher elevation and declinations depending on it's installation: the designers were definitely thinking about engaging drones and small watercraft with this new system.

This system also has a land-based variant which has for several months been used to defend the Green Zone in Baghdad from Artillery and Mortar Shells.

[RedRed]

Problem 3 is that current Iranian SCT's are pretty dumb and not very maneuverable. Evasion: changing depth (subs) and/or turning sharply.

If it has a range of 5 miles (assuming detected as its fired) , and travels at 300MPH (or even 200) , then the ship being attacked would only have approximately 1.5 minutes to order the move, and turn, before the missile/torpedo hit. Even if the missile is fitted with with the most rudementry homing it probably could not do it in time.... (1000 ton ships @ 30 knots are not that manuverable in unplanned exercises - as a sailor will tell you... One currently stationary (or moving slowly), no chance....)

I was thinking that it would have been a more effective weapon to use to attack blockading ships in the Med - so far they have often been so close to the shore as to be visible (2-3 miles tops)!

Speed recorded on the tests were 220 MPH
http://english.pravda.ru/news/world/...an%20torpedo-0
The Shkval (the russian variant) has an estimated range of seven kilometers.

[Dr Mordrid]

7km = 4.35 miles....not too good. As I said; a revenge weapon.

Blockade buster? Nope; one shot and every enemy sub there would be toast, assuming they even got off the shot. My bet is they'd be hammered as soon as they started preparing their torpedo tubes. Our commanders typically have that discretion.

There are typically ~12 steps to preparing and firing a torpedo tube, and our sonar guys can hear and identify most all of them for every type on Earth. There are just as many to re-set the torpedo tube, and most of them are likewise noisy.

The wrong sequence of click, tick & gurgle and BOOM! No more sub.