Barry Bonds

[Mehen]

I'm hoping Ken Griffey Jr. can hang on for another 10 years. He's at 581 right now, the record is 755. If he can stay healthy and play even another 6 or 7 years he might have a chance.

He has 16 this year, and is 37 years old.

[Dr Mordrid]

Link....

'Bonds cheated on wife and game', says Schilling

Curt Schilling, the outspoken pitcher of the Boston Red Sox, levelled his guns on Tuesday at Barry Bonds, who needs 12 homers to break Hank Aaron's all-time home run record.

Bonds has been at the centre of baseball's ongoing steroids controversy, but never has admitted to knowingly taking steroids.

Schilling must have thought otherwise during an interview with Boston-based sports radio station WEEI.

"He (Bonds) admitted he used steroids. There's no gray area," Schilling said on WEEI. "He (Bonds) admitted cheating on his wife, cheating on taxes and cheating on the game."

On December 4, 2003, Bonds was one of several athletes forced to testify as part of the BALCO case, which centred around the San Francisco-area lab, its founder Victor Conte, and Greg Anderson - Bonds' personal trainer and longtime friend.

Anderson was indicted for illegal distribution of steroids.

Bonds told the grand jury that he believed Anderson had given him flaxseed oil and arthritic balm, a substance that turned out to contain steroids.

"Hank Aaron not being there, the commissioner (Bud Selig) not knowing where he's going to be, it's sad," Schilling told WEEI. "I don't care if he's black, green, purple or yellow or whatever. It's just unfortunate there's good people and bad people."

[Gurm]

Speaking as a former Little League coach (all divisions; little to big) with 20+ years in the dugout;

BS. Ruth didn't. Maris didn't. Aaron didn't.

IMO Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds "records" should be expunged from the books and they should get the same treatment Ferguson Jenkins got for using drugs: banned for life.

That an arbitrator overturned it later is irrelevant, it should have stuck because of the poor example he set, sending the message to kids that drugs were OK in sports. Stuff like that matters to young players.

Because of their horrid example, and those of players in other sports, we have Little Leaguers shooting steroids and growth hormones

I am NOT saying we should condone it. But take EVERYONE to task. You're absolutely right, expunge the records of ALL steroid users! But don't make Bonds out to be somehow MORE terrible than the others!

And yes, the all-time greats didn't use steroids - that's why they were great.

[Dr Mordrid]

Nobody says boo when some star athlete rapes a girl, gets high and smashes his car into a bus full of kids, or other horrible acts. Hell, if you're a popular enough player, you can murder your wife and her gay friend! But HEAVEN HELP US if you use steroids!

Read this....

In addition, steroid supplements such as DHEA and androstenedione (known as Andro) are available over-the-counter in the United States , and are often sold at health food stores or gyms. These are weak anabolic steroids, so people must take large doses to see any effect. Generally, side effects are the same as with anabolic steroids, although harmful effects are reported less often with over-the-counter supplements.
>
Recognizing signs of steroid use

Steroids are usually injected into the muscle, although some are taken orally or applied to the skin as creams or gels. Often, people will take more than one type of steroid. There are more than 100 different anabolic steroids.

Here are some of the outward signs of steroid use:

* Needle marks over large muscle areas.
* Disproportionate body size, with overdeveloped upper body muscles.
* Mood swings and aggressive behavior (known as "roid rage").
* Acne
* Deepened voice for women.
* Hair loss that resembles male pattern baldness.
* Increased appetite

In addition, steroid use can cause:

* Muscle or tendon tears
* Liver damage
* Higher cholesterol levels
* Shrinking testicles in men and irregular menstrual periods in women
* Stunted growth in children or young teens

[Gurm]

I have to agree with Gurm. Save for the whole "everyone" bit about defending someone who did those aforementioned things. I don't know anyone who would do so.

Flagrantly generalizing again, sorry. Just upset over ... uh ... whatshisname from the Red Sox a few years back who kept getting drunk and mowing down innocent families. What was his name? I've tried to purge it. Judges let him off, people from all walks of life came to his defense. This is one of my gigantic problems with "sports", as we've been over before.

ANYWAY, I think that all the fuss about steroids is just hypocritical self-righteous pandering.

Nobody says boo when some star athlete rapes a girl, gets high and smashes his car into a bus full of kids, or other horrible acts. Hell, if you're a popular enough player, you can murder your wife and her gay friend! But HEAVEN HELP US if you use steroids!

[Helevitia]

Speaking as a former Little League coach (all divisions; little to big) with 20+ years in the dugout;

BS. Ruth didn't. Maris didn't. Aaron didn't.

IMO Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds "records" should be expunged from the books and they should get the same treatment Ferguson Jenkins got for using drugs: banned for life.

That an arbitrator overturned it later is irrelevant, it should have stuck because of the poor example he set, sending the message to kids that drugs were OK in sports. Stuff like that matters to young players.

Because of their horrid example, and those of players in other sports, we have Little Leaguers shooting steroids and growth hormones

We don't agree very often, but this time I think you are spot on

[Helevitia]

The problem is that you're scapegoating. Instead of trying to FIX the problems with the sport, you just want to make someone pay for it. The guy took some steroids. Yay. So did everyone else. He still hit very well. Steroids don't make you connect with the ball more often (in fact, just the opposite).

But PLEASE, let's call a spade a spade. If this guy were a murderer, a drunk-driver that mowed down small children, a rapist, or other lowlife scum... everyone would be defending him, just like they do with all the others.

Just because I'm talking about Barry, doesn't mean I don't feel the same way about everyone else. I feel the same way about all of them. Mark McGuire, etc...I grew up admiring Mark and others. Now I feel saddened that this is what things have come to. And it's not just baseball, it's everything. Now, I know people make mistakes. Fine, aopologize maybe, and then move on. But continue to lie and deny the truth even though everyone knows you are a lier, means that you are scum IMHO. That means you would probably lie about a bunch of other things as well.

And the whole murderer, drunk driver, rape thing is bullshit. Talk about changing the subject

And last, in the end, it's not for me to judge who Barry or Mark or anyone else. But I do feel that if you are in the public, you need to live up to a certain moral responsibility. It's sad that athletes act like gangsters, drug dealers and more.

[Jessterw]

Now that I can agree with as well. It's not a black and white issue. There are just as many players who have cheated in one way or another as have not.

[Dr Mordrid]

The problem is that you're scapegoating. Instead of trying to FIX the problems with the sport, you just want to make someone pay for it. The guy took some steroids. Yay. So did everyone else.

Speaking as a former Little League coach (all divisions; little to big) with 20+ years in the dugout;

BS. Ruth didn't. Maris didn't. Aaron didn't.

IMO Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds "records" should be expunged from the books and they should get the same treatment Ferguson Jenkins got for using drugs: banned for life.

That an arbitrator overturned it later is irrelevant, it should have stuck because of the poor example he set, sending the message to kids that drugs were OK in sports. Stuff like that matters to young players.

Because of their horrid example, and those of players in other sports, we have Little Leaguers shooting steroids and growth hormones

[Jessterw]

I have to agree with Gurm. Save for the whole "everyone" bit about defending someone who did those aforementioned things. I don't know anyone who would do so.

As Jamm said, Bonds hit the ball just as well after as he did while he was on the roids. Certainly doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make it a scandal either.

Now MLB players when they visit Tampa - there's some scandalous material to be found there (or at least there used to be years ago).

[Gurm]

The problem is that you're scapegoating. Instead of trying to FIX the problems with the sport, you just want to make someone pay for it. The guy took some steroids. Yay. So did everyone else. He still hit very well. Steroids don't make you connect with the ball more often (in fact, just the opposite).

But PLEASE, let's call a spade a spade. If this guy were a murderer, a drunk-driver that mowed down small children, a rapist, or other lowlife scum... everyone would be defending him, just like they do with all the others.

[Helevitia]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree Regardless of how strong/good/athletic he is, I feel he deserves to get kicked out of baseball for cheating. This is the same thing as what Pete Rose did, but Pete got booted and deservedly so.

When do you draw the line for things like this? I guess my line comes sooner than yours?

[Jammrock]

Just because it isn't illegal doesn't make it right. Taking steroids is cheating IMHO.

I agree, but being strong has less to do with hitting home runs than have a good eye and an excellent swing. I do agree that taking any performance enhancers is cheating, but Bonds is a good enough player that he deserves the crown, roids for a season or two or not.

Personally I think the whole thing is being blown out of proportion by Yankee and Red Sox fans who are jealous that Bonds wouldn't move the hell...I mean NY or Boston and play for them. The rest of the world kind of got duped into following along. I bet if Bonds was a Yankee or a Red Sox player everyone in the sports world would be defending him, saying he was tricked into thinking the stuff was legal and FDA approved by ... whoever it was selling disguised roids to atheletes.

Jammrock

[ZokesPro]

I'd feel more satisfied winning something by my own means than taking crap like steroids to break a record. I hope he feels the same way.

@Helevitia: I agree. Plus it's nothing to be proud of either.

[Helevitia]

He's still knocking them out of the park with ease even after the steriod scandal, and technically roids aren't illegal in the MLB (at least not while he was using), so the record will stand.

Just because it isn't illegal doesn't make it right. Taking steroids is cheating IMHO.