A creative moment of your time please.

[Umfriend]

Those are good points. I do not consider "land" the same as "capital" but anyway. I was pointing at investments in irragation systems, ploughing and harvesting machinery etc. Tomatoes, aubergines, courgettes, potatoes etc. al need to be resown each year, no? My main concern is that with little capital investment, growing food becomes a labour intensive industry so that a lot of labour needs to be redirected from capital-insentive high-value-added industries to agriculture. But again, it may well be we're discussing different things. I am talking about a massive movement to consumption of self grown food to a large extent.

[Brian Ellis]

Not entirely. Many veggies produce far more than fruit trees per m² of land. One tree = typically ~25 m² and that land has to be amortised. If it gives, say, 25 kg of fruit, 1 kg/m² is a much lower yield than I get from tomatoes, aubergines, courgettes, potatoes etc. Then consider that a fruit tree may yield nothing for the first 2-3 years after planting (6 years in the case of my apricot). Fruit trees cost a lot more than a packet of seeds in initial capital and cost more in labour and materials, to boot (pruning, spraying, harvesting, irrigation).

[Umfriend]

First, I now see that Liz may have simply meant that more people should grow something. I took her to mean a far more extreme point. If I was mistaken I apologise. Shit happens. I have no problems with people growing food as a hobby for their self gratification. I don;t think it'll make a big difference in the grand scheme of things but it probably will to the experience these people get from their own grown food.

Anyway, Brian, fruit is different from most, if not all, vegetables and grains in the sense that harvesting is almost all to be done after the trees or bushes have been planted. With the sowing, plowing and harvesting of a whole years' consumption of those (and your livestock if you eat meat), a lot more time and capital would be required, would you not agree?

[Brian Ellis]

I have been growing SOME food since 1970. No, I don't grow all our veggies but probably 75%-80% of our fruit (oranges, grapefruit, pomelos, lemons, mandarines, clementines, peaches, apricots, nectarines, figs, grapes); the only ones we consistently buy are local bananas and mangoes, because they won't grow at his altitude. We use two large chest freezers to bridge the gaps (only yesterday I did a job I really HATE, juiced about 60 grapefruit to make ~ 20 l of a very tasty juice that will keep us going for a few months. Will have another similar session in a couple of weeks). I don't grow any cereals nor meat. Time taken? Very variable. A few minutes/day harvesting on average. Perhaps 40 or 50 hours/year for all other tasks.

My food is organic, but not in the sense of the scam sold in shops. I use an absolute minimum of chemicals (compost for the veggie beds and fruit), one treatment/year of fungicide on grapes and deciduous fruit trees, 2 or 3 treatments of insecticides on deciduous trees (I hate finding half a worm in a peach!), 1 on citrus trees (Mediterranean fruit fly is a REAL PEST). No slug/snail bait (have a dog!).

[Umfriend]

Yes, it was restricted to those who have a backyard but was also expanded to every person when my position was presented (incorrectly). Anyway. Brian, do you grow all your food yourself, did you grow food when you ran your business and how much time does it take you?

[Brian Ellis]

I know it seems silly but if everyone with a backyard grew their own vegetables it would make life better.

I emphasise part of what Liz said. She didn't say that everyone should have a backyard. I agree with her, at least partially. We grow fruit and veggies in ours. I don't say that it is cheaper than buying mass-produced farmed produce: it isn't. But the quality is not comparable. If I pick an orange or a peach (in due season, of course), we almost drown in the flavoursome juice. If I pick a tomato or cucumber, it will taste like what a tomato or a cucumber should taste like, not like a waterlogged splooch. And it leaves more of the less good, low cost, fruit and veggie available for those who don't have the luck, means or wish to have a backyard.

[Umfriend]

I find it funny that you've went through 3 pages of ideas and only disagreed with mine.

I hope you did not take me as picking on you. One thing that sets your answer apart from most (if not all) others is that you had a very concreet one. "Inspiration", "being nice", "tolerance" are all fine and well but it is not directly clear what is meant by these and what the expected consequences are. That is what makes it easier to react to you as opposed to others.

So you think if every person in the world had a place and knowledge to grow their own food it would make the world worse.

That is not what you suggested. I agree it would be good if everyone had the knowledge how to provide for food (including hunting, slaughtering, gutting etc.) and had a place to do it (which would, I think, put a strain on availability of arable land though).

You suggested that we'd actually all do that and with that I disagreed. Do you have any idea how much more efficient farming is done these days in large scale operations? It is impossible to get that kind of efficiency if we'd all go into autarky. And to fully grow your food you'd almost have to do that. I've spoken with a few farmers who took over the farm from thier fathers, and they from theirs etc. They produce more know with just two hired employees than they did pre-WWII with fourty... It is impossible (or at the least an enormous waste) to provide each individual with the capital investments to obtain such yields.

Personally I would think it would lead to healthier lives. Not to mention cutting down the World Hunger Situation.

Again, I am strongly in favour of honest and broad education on food production, diet etc.

But lets see the question was:


"What’s the smallest thing that would make the biggest difference?"

lets say i was wrong and we didn't have seeds at all.. where would we be.

Yeah well, I admit, without seeds we'd have a problem. Course, water almost has a similar aspect to it.

[Gurm]

Just hug someone..

Oh, you're one of THOSE... those ... those SERIAL HUGGERS!

EVERYBODY SCATTER!

[Mikko]

If you care for them, haven't you already hugged them? Maybe you should give a hug to someone you DON'T care for.

Err... on second thought, that's a bad idea. Lawsuit waiting to happen.

Just hug someone..

[Gurm]

Give a hug to someone you care for. It'll make the difference..

If you care for them, haven't you already hugged them? Maybe you should give a hug to someone you DON'T care for.

Err... on second thought, that's a bad idea. Lawsuit waiting to happen.

[Mikko]

Give a hug to someone you care for. It'll make the difference..

[Lizzard[MPE]]

I find it funny that you've went through 3 pages of ideas and only disagreed with mine.

So you think if every person in the world had a place and knowledge to grow their own food it would make the world worse.

Personally I would think it would lead to healthier lives. Not to mention cutting down the World Hunger Situation.


But lets see the question was:


"What’s the smallest thing that would make the biggest difference?"

lets say i was wrong and we didn't have seeds at all.. where would we be.

[Umfriend]

Seeds

and the knowledge to understand how to have personal family gardens. I know it seems silly but if everyone with a backyard grew their own vegetables it would make life better.

It does seem silly and I disagree.

Don't get me wrong, my mother in law grows her own veggies and it is great to have really fresh food when I'm with her. I hope I'll do it myself someday as well. However, productivity otherwise is low and the world will be a worse place if we all spent time inefficiently on food production.

[Helevitia]

Wife said, "attitude"
son said, "smile"

[Helevitia]

One word... Hope

or one sentence...You are not alone