MSP: How can both the speed and direction of an A/V clip be changed?

[Rick6612]

Hi Guys,

Dr. Watson didn't cause my system to lock up, however, after MSP crashed while Dr. Watson was running, I couldn't get rid of it - clicking "Close" on the "Illegal Operation" dialog did nothing, Cntrl-Alt-Del no longer brought up the "End Task" dialog, etc. I finally tried to just shutdown Windows, but everytime I did that I got a message that some unknown program was not responding. I clicked "End Task" each time, but it still did not allow Windows to shut down. I could keep going back and clicking Start -> Shutdown , etc., but never got Windows to come down. I finally had to "pull the plug" on Windows.

Patrick, the information that we both pasted in shows that in both cases, the error occurred at the same offset in the same module (veditor.exe).

As for System File Checker, I run that every time I install anything new on my system. That way I always know who to blame if something gets deleted or overlaid, etc.

Rick

[This message has been edited by Rick6612 (edited 09-29-1999).]

[This message has been edited by Rick6612 (edited 09-29-1999).]

[Patrick]

Ok, here's the latest. I was able to run DrWatson immediately after MSP froze up while the error dialog box was still present. I now have a system "snapshot" of how things were at that time. So what do I do now, Doc? Shall I email it to you? It's all Greek to me.

I asked a friend of mine who has a Marvel to try speeding up and reversing a short clip. He had NO problems. Doc has a Marvel and has no problems. I have the RR-S and I can't do the procedure. Rick, are you still using the RR-S? I'm just wondering if there's any correlation here at all.

It would be great if we could hear some feedback from a few more people out there who have tried this procedure.

[smitty]

Hi Patrick. I'm using a mystique 220 &RRS
I was able to capture a clip , then I reversed it then sped it up 200%.
I rendered it and it played back no problem.I recaptured the clip , reversed it ,then slowed it 50% ,it also worked fine.
Did you reverse the clip before changing speeds?
Or have you added any filters?
Are there any transitions ?
I've tried a few combinations but I can't make mine fail. ( that's a new twist )
smitty


[This message has been edited by smitty (edited 09-30-1999).]

[Patrick]

Hi Smitty, glad to have you enter the fray. However, I think it's possible that you may have missed one very important point. I believe none of us, including myself, have any problem increasing the speed of a clip, rendering it to an avi file, and then reversing this new clip. No problem doing it the other way around either- reversing a clip, rendering it to an avi file, and then increasing the speed of this new clip. The problem arises when the same clip is both speeded up and reversed without a new avi file being rendered. Does this all make sense? Apparently some systems can handle this, while others can't. We're trying to figure out why this is. Well, I'm hoping that the Doc or someone else can figure it out, because I haven't got a clue!

Smitty, can you try doing both changes to the same clip without rendering it to another avi file. Just preview it (as you would do for cutlist editing) after each change and let us know what happens. Thanks.

When I do the above steps, the first preview renders and plays back fine, the second preview renders but freezes up at the end of the render before it can play back.

[Haig]

Hi Patrick,

I tried this on a Dell XPS400 system here and didn't see any problems.

I reversed it first and then sped it up by 200%, ran the cutlist preview. No problems.

- CL PCI 128 with non WDM audio drivers.
- Win98
- 1024x768@16bpp

Ulead32.ini
[HardwareACC]
AlwaysKeeplastFrame=1
;HwCodecID=dmb1
DisableACC1=1
RecompressWhenScrubbing=1

In the Ulead preferences, I have Cache Ram Size and Cache Disk Size set to 0MB on both.

I only tried clips captured in 704x576 and 704x480 both using 44.1 audio captures.

Delete your audio track and see if you still get the problem.

Haig

[Rick6612]

Hi Patrick,

I am using a Marvel G200 now, but when I had the problem before, I believe it was when I was still using my Mystique220/RRS. I still have RRS... it's in my old PC which my kids use now. I guess I could try it again on that PC and see what happens.

One thing I'm wondering about... for the people who can do this combination of effects without crashing: Are you just putting one clip on the timeline and then applying the effects to that one clip and then rendering/previewing? Or are you putting a significant project (with many clips, transitions, etc.) on the timeline and then trying to apply the effects to one of the clips within the project, etc...??

I have only tried doing this to a clip within a significant project. That's when it crashes for me. I have not tried just putting one clip on the timeline and doing it with just one clip. Maybe that makes a difference?

Rick

[Haig]

Hi Rick,

I used 2 one minutes clips with a transition in between them.

Haig

[Patrick]

Welcome aboard, Haig. Ok, now I have some progress to report. When I followed Haig's suggestion and cleared the audio track, I could both reverse and speed up the video clip with NO problems. This is a big step in the right direction, but the fact remains that there is still something preventing me (and others) from doing this procedure while still retaining the audio track.

Interestingly enough, if I clear the video track and try to reverse and speed up just the audio track, I have the same freeze up problem as before.

Haig, my system specs compared to what you gave me are:

- CL PCI 128 with Creative 4.05.1207 drivers
- Win98
- 1024x768@16bpp

[HardwareACC]
RecompressWhenScrubbing=1
HwCodecID=dmb1
DisableAcc1=1
(Is there a reason why I don't have the AlwaysKeeplastFrame setting?)

In the Ulead preferences, I have Cache Ram Size and Cache Disk Size set to 120 MB for both (although I tried them both set at 0 MB with no difference in the result).

All clips captured at 704x480 using 44.1 audio captures.

Haig, this may or may not be a separate issue, but the Cache Ram Size and Cache Disk Size setting is confusing. The MSP manual sort of suggests that the more MB the better (up to a limit), so I was surprised to see that your settings were 0 MB for both. Do you have any comment on this, or can you recommend a good place for researching these kind of things?

Rick, for these tests I'm using a two second clip taken from a one minute capture and there is nothing else on the time line. I'm also not using any filters or transitions.

We're making some progress. What's the next step?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-30-1999).]

[DrMordrid]

Ahah....

On soapbox:

Let me put it this way: I've tried so many PCI audio cards my shelf is overflowing with 'em. NONE worked right, especially the Creative ones. Bus hogs one and all.

Off soapbox.

Dr. Mordrid


[This message has been edited by DrMordrid (edited 09-30-1999).]

[Patrick]

Doc, get back up on that soapbox!

Is there a solution, other than tossing the PCI 128?

[Rick6612]

Hi Doc,

I'm not trying to argue with you about PCI vs. ISA sound cards, but when I had this same problem on my old PC, I was using an ISA sound card.

Rick

[Haig]

Hi Patrick,

AlwaysKeepLastFrame=1 is supposed to keep the scrubbing solid. I never had it off (set to 0) so I don't know if it actually works.

You can try it though and see if it helps you.

At least we know that it's an issue between Ulead and the sound card. I don't know what driver version I have in my system at work but I do know it wasn't the default driver from win98 nor was it a WDM audio driver. It was whatever driver creative has on their web site as of last Monday.

Try those and see if it helps. Also, Try capturing with a lower sample rate for your audio and see if that helps or use a different audio codec. Maybe the default PCM codec doesn't like something in your system.

Doc is right about PCI sound cards. Big bus hogs especially the Creative ones.

Not only bus hogs but also use up alot of CPU resource.

I also tried the Live card and each time I enable their fancy effects, my CPU utilisation shoots up to ~30%.

Other PCI sound cards may also have conflicts if you enable SB16 emulation mode.

Anyways, all this to say that PCI sound cards still need help.

For the cache ram settings, I personally don't beleive that any type of disk caching helps in video whether it's editing or capturing. Sooner or later, that cache will get full and then something will stall while windows flushes it.

Haig

[smitty]

Hi
Patrick, I did not miss the point.I applied both to the clip before previewing or rendering.My point was I tried apply reverse first and speed next ,then the opposite.Both cases audio also reversed and (a) chipmunked (b) slloowwwed
video also worked as expected.I am using AWE64 isa
audio at 44k
.My Ulead32.ini is similar to Haig's except (a) HwCodec Id=dmb1 in mine does not have a semi colon in front
(b) I do not have a last frame line at all.
Just tryin to feed the info pool.
smitty

[This message has been edited by smitty (edited 10-01-1999).]

[Patrick]

Smitty, sorry, I misunderstood your previous post. Yes, now that I reread it I can see that you did the procedure exactly as I had hoped you would. I note that you have an ISA sound card. Hmmm..... there might be something to this PCI sound card business, except that Haig has demonstrated that his system works properly with a PCI 128, which is what I have. And also that Rick reported that he still had this same problem when he had an ISA card...

Regarding the Ulead file, I also don't have a semi-colon in front of HwCodec Id=dmb1.

Haig, I put AlwaysKeepLastFrame=1 into my Ulead file. This made no difference. I have the latest Creative drivers, so they'd be the same as yours. I turned off the legacy emulation, and put the hardware acceleration slider (of the PCI 128) to the lowest setting. No difference. I don't know how to capture video using a different audio codec, so I converted a captured avi file to a couple of different audio codecs, but this made no difference. I captured some clips using the default PCM audio codec with a much lower sampling rate, but this also made no difference. I pointed my computer towards Mecca in the east, and chanted for an hour on a mat, but alas, this also made no difference.

If PCI sound cards are being accused of causing these problems Haig, why does the PCI 128 work properly in your system and not in mine?

I'm still hoping that it's just a configuration problem. Should be no trouble to figure out...

[Rick6612]

Hi,

FWIW, I just tried putting a single, short video clip in MSP, and I applied the Reverse effect and increased the Speed to 150%. Then I Previewed it, and it worked fine. No crashing.

The crashing only seems to occur (for me anyway) when I try to do this combination of effects within the middle of a fairly substantial project. I don't think one or two clips and one or two transistions is enough to get it to crash.

I'm not sure how much any of this would have to do with the SB 128 PCI sound card.

Rick