MSP: How can both the speed and direction of an A/V clip be changed?

[Rick6612]

Hi Again,

This is interesting. After successfully applying the combination of Reverse and 150% Speed to a single clip, I decided to go back to my large project and try once again to apply this combination of effects to a clip within the large project.

Guess what? This time I was able to do it without crashing!

By the way, I'm still using my SB 128 PCI sound card. I haven't changed anything of any significance.

Rick

[Patrick]

Hmmm.... geez, thanks a lot Rick. Now I feel even more bummed out about my system.

I found out that if I limit the increased speed of my clip to 103%, it won't crash after the preview rendering. Raise it to 104% or higher, and it's lock-up city.

Rick, just double checking. You have retained the audio in the clip you've altered, have you?

[Rick6612]

Hi Patrick,

Yes, the audio is still there.

Rick

[Patrick]

It's kind of a shame that we couldn't get to the bottom of this. I am NOT saying this because I'm upset that I can't both reverse and speed up an A/V clip in one step when apparently others can. This in itself is not a big deal. No, it goes well beyond that.

For as long as I've been following this forum (about a year now), I've read that PCI sound cards are to blame for everything from jerky playback to the unrest in Palestine. The situation we have in this thread is one where at least two other people, who have exactly the same PCI 128 sound card as I have, can do a procedure that I can't, yet my PCI sound card seems to have been fingered as the culprit. This doesn't make any sense to me. Who knows how many other problems that people have reported here have been brushed off as a PCI sound card issue, when in reality it's some other reason, maybe distantly related.

I still think it's a configuration problem. Unfortunately, all this hardware/software is so friggen complicated that the average person has to live with what just happens to be working. It's probably a miracle that as much of this stuff works as it does, especially considering the relatively low price of it all.

Ok, now I'll get down off MY soapbox.

[Rick6612]

Hi Patrick,

Have you tried doing the Reverse and speed change together with just a single clip on the timeline, like what I did when I got it to work?

I don't know if you also get the MUG (MediaStudio Users Group), but awhile back someone on the MUG was complaining that he was working on a project and all of a sudden he started having crashes every time he tried to render his project, etc.

I told him my old story about how I one time tried to simultaneoulsy reverse and change the speed of a clip, and all of a sudden MSP was crashing every time I tried to render. I told him that I suspected that there are just certain combinations of things that will cause MSP to crash, even though MSP never says "Warning: invalid combination of effects" or anything like that.

Anyway, this guy took my advice and went back and changed a few things where he had set up some complicated combinations of moving paths and overlays and who knows what else... and he ended up resolving his problem.

So, the point of all this is that I believe Ulead MSP is prone to having problems that are caused by some combinations of effects, filters, moving paths, overlays, length of project, rendering options, etc., etc.

Let's face it, this is fairly complex stuff. There are so many possible combinations of things you can do in MSP, and so many potential influences on how it will work, from the combination of hardware, drivers, Windows version, length of clips, frame size, frame rate, audio settings, etc., that all come into play.

There is no question in my mind that the combination of Reverse and changing speed of a clip is a dangerous combination in MSP. The people who have gotten it to work are either lucky, or they only got it to work because they only did it on a clip in a simple project with maybe two clips and one transition, and not as part of a complicated project with many clips, many transitions, title overlays, moving paths, etc.

I do not believe it is as simple as "your PCI sound card is no good." If it were that simple, then everyone who had a PCI sound card would probably have the same problem.

Rick

[Haig]

Hi Patrick,

to change the audio codec, goto control panel/multimedia/devices/audio compression codecs.

In here you'll see a list of audio codecs. If you double click on any of them, you will see a priority # assigned. Play around with these codecs by putting them to priority 1 one at a time and see if this helps.

Each time you assign a new priority, make a new capture and use that as clip.

Also, what version of DX and media player are you using?

What happens if you disable bus mastering from our display properties?

Rick - I tried this again but this time with 8 one minute clips. Used 24 fx and picked 6 clips to be in reverse and FF. Still couldn't lock up.

Haig

[Patrick]

Hi Rick,

Looks like it's just you and me against the world when it comes to defending the honour and integrity of PCI sound cards. I agree whole heartedly with your last paragraph.

In regards to your question Rick, yes, I tried the reversing and speeding up procedure on just a single clip on the timeline. A single two second clip on the timeline, nothing else. No filters, no transitions. I couldn't make it much simpler for MSP to deal with. Ok, I could have used a one second clip.

There is an answer out there somewhere. If it's ever determined, it's possible that plenty of other problems could be resolved, that up to this point have been blamed on PCI sound cards.

-------------------------------------

Hi Haig, your post appeared while I was responding to Rick's post. I'll try your suggestions and report back. Thanks.

[DrMordrid]

Note that while Haig is using a PCI-128 he also stated he has all the special stuff turned off. I'm assuming he also disables ISA emulation?

In any case this is the only way to get most PCI audio cards to work. In the SBLive's case only dynamite helps.

Dr. Mordrid

[Patrick]

HOLD THE PRESSES !!!


I can now do the procedure.

How, you say?

I'm glad you asked.

Back on 09-30-1999 I stated:

"... for these tests I'm using a two second clip taken from a one minute capture and there is nothing else on the timeline..."

What I didn't mention, because I didn't think it was necessary at the time, was that I have been using the Scratch Pad to trim this same one minute clip to two seconds for all my tests. After reading Haig's last post, I was about to follow his suggestion and capture several new clips with different audio codecs to try them out. I figured that I might as well capture clips limited to two seconds so that I wouldn't have to trim them. Just for the heck of it, I captured a two second clip using ALL the SAME settings as before. I put it on the timeline, set the speed at 200%, reversed it, clicked on Preview and almost dropped my coffee when MSP didn't crash at the end of the Preview rendering.

After many tests with many clips of many durations, I have determined that it's the use of the Scratch Pad that was causing all the problems I was having. If I take the original one minute clip that I was using before, and do NOT trim it down to two seconds with the Scratch Pad, I can now reverse and speed up the entire clip with NO problems. The only odd thing I notice now is that rather than being spaced out normally, the sound of the reversed speeded up clip is bunched up in little "clumps" all along the audio track. The audio track seems to look normal, but it sounds odd. The sound appears and disappears in quick intervals. However, when I create an AVI file of the processed clip, the new audio track actually shows the "clumps" of sound. Can anyone else confirm that this is "normal"?

I'd be interested to hear whether anyone who was able do the procedure successfully before was using the Scratch Pad to trim their clips at all. Could someone please try doing it the way I was doing it previously to see if they can duplicate the crash.

If it turns out that the Scratch Pad has been the culprit all along, can anyone hazard to guess as to why this is?

Makes one wonder now what other problems people have with MSP that might be linked to the use of the Scratch Pad.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-06-1999).]

[Rick6612]

Hi Patrick,

Sounds like progress is being made! That's good.

When I do it, my sound comes out in "clumps" like you described it. So, I guess that is "normal." As normal as anything is in this business.

I can't explain why using the scratchpad seems to be related to this problem, but like I said before, there are definitely certain combinations of things that seem to contribute to causing MSP to crash.

Haig,

In the project I tried it on where I got it to crash, I had over 24 minutes worth video files, approx. 1 GB each (used AVI_IO to capture with max file size set to 1000 MB).

Also, when it crashed for me, I was applying the effects to a clip that was previously trimmed using scratchpad and the Scissors tool to cut it apart. This seems like it could be a factor, according to what Patrick said.

Dr. Mordrid,

I do not have ISA emulation turned off on my SB 128 PCI, but I also don't have any of the other stuff turned on. I guess this could be a factor?

Rick

[This message has been edited by Rick6612 (edited 10-06-1999).]

[Haig]

Hi guys,

In my previous tests, I never used the scratch pad to do any trimming.

So I emptied my video temp directory, re-captured a few clips and tried it again by trimming some clips in the scratch pad and still no lock ups.

I don't know if this will help you guys but I did not install any music apps that came with the PCI 128 card and I am using media player 6.1.

However, I did manage to lock it up after a few previews when the ISA emulation was enabled. Even so, it didn't lock up right away. It locked up on the 4th preview.

Once it locked up, I cleared my video temp, opened up Ulead and previewed the same project with the trimming done again and it locked up on the 3rd time I did the preview.

Cleared my video temp, disabled ISA emulation and no more lock ups.

Haig