new KYODAI SOLITAIRE supports HARDWARE bumpmapping!!!!!

[nosuchluck]

http://www.kyodai.com/

check the news, the latest beta has hardware bumpmapping!

if you haven't played this game, you must download.
you will forget all about quake 3.....

[Maggi]

Implementing bump-mapping was much harder than expected (Microsoft, I hate you !), but I'm glad I did it. Don't worry, it will be optional, because it causes a severe performance hit, and it's only available on G400 cards.

LOL

What kind of performance hit can we expect from that game ???

A severe drop fomr 300 fps to 200 ???

Anyway, thanx for the link, nosuchluck !!!

I love that game since the middle of the 80s, where I had it on my Amiga ...

[Rakido]

oh my god

[nosuchluck]

ahh, the amiga 500, the good ol days!
i remember saving all my money for the amiga 2000, but i bought the "adam" computer instead...dumb.
remember that!
the add on computer for the colecovision.....
damn it is nice to see how far we have come!

now what is this about bumpmapping hard to do?
i thought matrox said it is easy to use in games?

just curious.....

[nosuchluck]

btw.....bumpmapping on this game drops my fps from 80 to around 30-35.

still PLENTY fast for this type of game.

cheers!

[Maggi]

oh yes ... good olden but golden days ...

I had the A1200, put it into a big tower and stuffed it with the Blizzard1230/882 @ 50 MHz and incredible 16MB fast EDO RAM (60ns) ... that was cool.

...

About those probs to imply BM ... I was wondering for myself about that, maybe they didn't find the proper link to Matrox's development support ...

And reading your FPS makes me wonder what could be holding it back ... too many polygons ?

Weird ... a game like that should fly on any card ... even in software mode.

[Naoki Haga]

Hi there, I'm the author of Kyodai.
First of all I'd like to answer some stuff.

>now what is this about bumpmapping hard to
>do? i thought matrox said it is easy to use in games?

Yes, it's easy to do when you know how to implement multi-texturing. Which I didn't know Also, there's a stupid proprietary "bumpmap format" that has to be programmed, and I had to convert it to Delphi (which wasn't easy). But actually it seems like there's no need to call this routine at all (don't know why). Apart from that, it was fun to implement.

>bumpmapping on this game drops my fps from
>80 to around 30-35.

Now it's about twice faster than the current beta. I was somehow urged to release it yesterday, but after a few hours I worked on removing the bump mapping from the tile borders. After all, when you're playing, you don't spend your time watching them. So now it looks better and it's even faster.
It looks better because, upon request from a Matrox tech, I made the environment map move in real time. So the effect of bump mapping is permanently visible and even I was stunned by the result. Matrox definitely has a winner with their G400 card !
I sent the latest build (the one with the dynamic envmap) to Matrox and they liked it Maybe I'll post it later on my site, but I want to fix a few other bugs first.

>About those probs to imply BM ... I was
>wondering for myself about that, maybe they
>didn't find the proper link to Matrox's
>development support ...

Actually it's that very same tech who contacted me in the first place and offered me a G400 card. In return, I implemented Bump mapping (not that he had required it, but I was so impressed by the technical demos that I wanted to do the same )

>Weird ... a game like that should fly on
>any card ... even in software mode.

Not true... Unless I program the software mode myself (but I don't have time for this, and today nearly everybody has a 3D card). Anyway, people who have slow 3D can simply switch to the 2D mode.
DirectX is famous for the slowness of its software mode. I can't do much about that. By disabling most of the effects and running Kyodai at a lower resolution, it's actually still very playable in software mode.

Thanks for your enthusiasm everyone

[Nuno]

Hi there Naoki

Great job you did with that code. The game is indeed very nice.

As for the EMBM implementation I think the evironement map is to "intense". It makes the tiles simbols hard to see from some viewing points. Look at the pic rakido posted. I tried the demo and honestly I prefer EMBM off because of that.

What would be great was if you implement bumpmaps to each tile picture so that it apears to be actully sculped in the tile... asking to much I guess

[mathew]

Stooooooooooopid question I guess but how do I implement hardware bump mapping to this game ??? DUH ???..

Please forgive this momentary laps in brain function as I have been staying up far too late playin UT AkA Max-Payne

[Nuno]

Go to the menu "3D" and select "environement mapping" and "bump mapping". They´re off by default.
Or if you like it the hard way edit kyodai.ini with these lines:
EnvironmentMapping=1
BumpMapping=1

[Naoki Haga]

>Great job you did with that code. The game
>is indeed very nice.

Thanks, Nuno

>As for the EMBM implementation I think the
>evironement map is to "intense". It makes
>the tiles simbols hard to see from some
>viewing points. Look at the pic rakido
>posted.

Yes, of course. I know about that ! But as I said, this problem is fixed now. I'm now using a better balanced environment map. You can change it yourself if you want... Or I could send you the new files by e-mail.
I'm currently fixing a few other bugs. I may have a 4th Beta available before the end of the week -- not sure yet, I'm still busy playing FF8 ;-)

>I tried the demo and honestly I prefer EMBM off because of that.

Well, with the new version, I feel like I won't be able to play WITHOUT embm again It's so beautiful to watch... Also, I think it might be a good opportunity to start dropping the idea of "strong penalties" when Shuffle is called (except for Hint, of course !). This will make the game more stressful and a better environment to be immersed in

>What would be great was if you implement
>bumpmaps to each tile picture so that it
>apears to be actully sculped in the tile...
>asking to much I guess

Well, I was discussing about that with my favorite Matrox tech earlier today It can be done, but I'm not sure the result would be great. Anyway, it's something to think of, just because the hit in video memory isn't that great (because the only cards that implement EMBM for now are the G400 with at least 16mb of Ram...)

BTW, I insertedt the mapping menus in a submenu called "Special Effects". Also, I've just retried Beta 3 I'd released yesterday. It looks awful. I can't believe I released that publicly ! )) Well, most people will say it looks good, but since I made my modifications yesterday night, it doesn't have much in common with that beta

Well, gotta go to bed... It's 4am here in France

[MaTriX]

I have downloaded ver 10.21 and there is no enviroment mapping under 3d, is there any other version???

[Nuno]

Wainting for the new beta then....

Bonne nuit

[nosuchluck]

you have to get beta 11 or later, otherwise, no bumpmapping.....

cheers!

[Maggi]

Welcome aboard, Naoki !

and thanx for giving so much feedback ...

How did you find us ? Was it a hint from that Matrox dude ?

Anyway, great game or better great adoption of that game !!!

Keep up the good work ...

------------------
Cheers,
Maggi

Despite my nickname causing confusion, I am not female ...