I'm f'ing outraged!!!!!

[Hunsow]

Up

Date problem with the forum again.

[Joel]

I don't know how they do things in your country but in this country the likelyhood that someone who is innocent every getting the death penalty is very, very, and I do emphasize very slim because in the US a person is innocent until proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, guilty. In other words in the US it is not up to the accussed to prove his/her innocence but it is up to the other side to prove their guilt. That is why sometimes criminals, who are guilty as hell like OJ Simpson, will go free.

Joel

[Hunsow]

What a bull. First of all name a country where you're presumed guilty until proven otherwise. I certainly can't think of any country where that's the case.
There are lots of cases with people on death row being released after they found out they were innocent, in fact there are lots of cases where it was already too late.
OJ Simpson is free because he is a celebrity, and because of the jury system. Any judge would have found him guilty.

[Joel]

As Jake would say, state your sources. That is why we have an appeals system.

Joel

BTW: What got OJ free was race issues.

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 31 May 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 31 May 2000).]

[Gurm]

There are relatively few people released from death row due to innocence. There are a lot more people released from death row due to clemency or pardon or reversal of death sentence. But very few that are found innocent after the fact. There are one or two high-profile cases where they are TRYING to find them innocent now, but no recent reversals that I know of.

And there ARE lots of systems where you are guilty until proven innocent. Much of Europe, and other parts of the world, operates on this system. Perhaps not worded quite like that, but... it's up to you to prove your innocence, instead of being up to the state to prove your guilt.

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Hunsow]

I actually meant to say western country. I don't think the race issue got OJ free, it just made it faster. How about American TV for sources.

[Joel]

Yeah and those same TV shows are produced by the same bleeding-heart liberals who want to see us do away with the death penalty altogether.

And if race was not an issue in the OJ case then why did Johnny Cockarn tell the jury that their vertic needs to send a message to the LA police department that they can not treat our people, meaning blacks and minorities, this way.

Joel

[merchant2112]

Yep for the death pen, also for no appeals, I say

1 have your day in court.
2 immediately have your appeal (if any remember I’m for no appeals

3 execute the mother the next day.

4 no civil right's for criminals (they weren't too concerned with civil rights when they violated the victims civil rights were they)

5 expand the death pen to include lesser crimes involving any and all deaths yes drunk driving too.

(Do this and see if you'll get in a car drunk or rob a store at gun point or do any thing with criminal intent) and I don’t believe in a, I don't know what I was doing I was drunk, stoned, etc. defense either because it was your choice too drink or get doped up.)

[Hunsow]

I didn't say race wasn't an issue, it clearly was, I just said it didn't matter for the outcome of the trial.

[Hunsow]

Almost forgot...

Yeah and those same TV shows are produced by the same bleeding-heart liberals who want to see us do away with the death penalty altogether.

If they are just stating facts it doesn't really matter who is stating them.

[Joel]

Like I said, that is why we have an appeals process. Of course often times it is abused.

And you are how old? To believe everything you see on TV. Don't you know that the media is the worlds worst at taking data and munipulating it to support their views.

I can only think of one case at this time where DNA evidence raised enough reasonable doubt that the person was released for time served. Of course this person was no saint either. Just like people want to think that Rodney King was such a victim, of course those same people never saw the whole video showing where he was actually attacking the police officers himself, but he had a record as long as your arm and has even been in trouble serveral times since his beating. It seems some people never learn no matter what happens.

Joel

[Jake]

Gurm,

- because even the people who get put away because they are innocent are usually some kinda bad person.

I can't be nice to be put away because you are innocent...

Anyway,

Even though I have seen "Army of Darkness" many years ago, I did not remember that particular quote. It was the "you primitive screwheads!" I reffered to. And I thought the BOOMSTICK was another word for a certain private part. Seen from this chair that combination seems pretty offensive, if you are not familiar with the movie...

With facts I meant more in the line of something like this:

Washington Post, 05-31-2000:

- The Jusice Department released the results of a poll today on capital punishment in the US. 500.000 people were asked whether they favored it or not and 55% cast their vote in favor of continued enforcement of capital punishment in the US.

(Just an example I made up.)

See what I mean?

About your use of capitalized words or (CAPS as you call them): My point was that using CAPS makes people think you are shouting to prove your point. Clearly a poor substitute for facts.

Merchant2112,
I simply cannot agree with applying such drastic measures as you suggest. Do you also believe children should have a hand cut off if found stealing apples next door, like they do in Iran?

Regards,

Jake

[motub]

And you know where you can put your boomstick? You been using that, in my oppinion clearly offensive, signature as long as I can remember reading your posts on this board. Over a year I think.

Why haven't the admins banned or at least warned you about this yet?

Motub, Ant?

You rang?

Errrrr... sorry, Jake, I'm either not quite following, or have a different take on Gurm's .sig than you.

First off, I don't necessarily consider it my place to force a member to edit their .sig. Naturally, someone is going to then say, "Well what if there was some Nazi propaganda, or anti-Black or anti-gay statement in there?" Yeah, that would be offensive to me personally. But I have a lot of faith in MURCers... I don't doubt that the membership itself would act to deal with such a person (assuming that they did not manage to get themself banned for other reasons, which they probably would).

Second, as to the specific case of Gurm's signature:[list=1][*] It's a movie joke, which he is happy to tell anyone who doesn't happen to have gotten it.[*] The use of the words "primitive screwhead" (which I assume is what you find offensive) is not profane (thus not editable on that basis), and is not in fact directed at any specific target, so it seems more a case of "if the shoe fits...." than anything else. Certainly yours is the first complaint that I've heard about it (most people complain about Gurm's <u>other</u> charming social graces... maybe they just got exhausted before they got to the .sig thing ).[*] True, the .sig does indicate a bad-@ss attitude which might be considered offensive, but that's Gurm's online persona, if by some weird chance you had not noticed -- and I think it helps members who may have just encountered him for the first time get a handle on who they're dealing with (which after all is the point of a .sig, if not to list your hardware specs). Gurm's hard line would have a totally different spin if he did have, say some kind of white-supremacist dogma in his .sig... but what he has is a quote from a schlock horror movie. That does tell you something, if you've ever been of the fannish persuasion.[/list=a]

Or maybe I just like the guy. I was something of a hellion myself before I got all respectable.

Up to you, Jake. You can:

• try to make a better case with me (but not here, either start another thread or email me);
• take it up with Ant yourself; or
• Try talking to Gurm about it... you might find that he's kinda a thoughtful guy (as you seem to be), and perhaps you'll find some ground for more productive discussion of the issue.

Sorry not to be more supportive.

------------------------------
Holly "far too busy to be either a b*tch or a tyrant at the moment... don't worry, everything'll be back to normal soon " Berri

[motub]

Hey Gurm, maybe you'd better reinstate the full sig, which makes it clear that the "BOOMSTICK" in question is a (is it a rifle or shotgun?) gun... though that doesn't actually defuse the "certain private part" thing... considering the Freudian elements... oh well.

------------------
Holly

[Jorden]

Say Jason, maybe it is time that we go back to our copyright war again

Jord.
---------
None of the above is copyright 2000 of Gurm.

---------
T minus 11 days.