Opinionated MURCers give me your car reviews

[Novdid]

ABS is THE most important safety equipment you can get. If it's wet or a little slipery on the road it's VERY VERY important that your wheels don't lock when you brake. Even when it's dry your car will brake MUCH more effectively. If you don't have ABS you have to compensate it with pumping the brake with your foot, and ABS does that better than any person just as Rags said.

If you get a car, get one with ABS, it's more important than any airbag, period!!!

[spoogenet]

Originally posted by Wombat
Well with the Nissans, it sounds like you're not paying much for the Bose.

Sentra: The ABS/Side-Impact adds $800
Maxima: The ABS/Side-Impact/Bose adds $1000

I've only seen the new Altima, haven't ridden or heard about it. But you can get the 240hp V6 on it.

Not exactly...with a Maxima SE, using their web page system to price a car, simply clicking on the side-impact airbags takes the price from 25,989 to 28,635 because it adds sunroof, meridian edition, and Bose in-dash system. Bose system is 1099, meridian is 399, sunroof is 899, and airbags are 249.

Interesting about the 6sp, though.....I need to check if there's another dealership nearby.

I haven't read much (anything, really, I guess) about side-impacts, I just assumed they could be handy. And what problems are there with them? Are there also issues with head curtain airbags?

Don't worry, I plan on getting ABS. I do recognize its benefits and kinda downplayed its importance earlier.....didn't mean to get everybody's knickers in a knot.

What do people have to say about the WRX? The only real problems I've found with the car so far is: ugly as hell (older style was better), no sunroof (could compromise if necessary), basic/cheap interior.

b

[Rags]

Side airbags inherit the problems of having a resistance sensitive component in a highly moveable piece of the car (the side of the seat back). They routinely cause the SRS system to get disabled because of a high resistance in the circuit, causing the need for the affected airbag module to be replaced so the SRS will work again. I am not convinced they really have an impact on safety in real life situations due points of entry when side impacts occur.

WRX's are nice, and can handle at the limits fairly well, but they don't feel comfortable when doing so, they sway a large amount. Also before choosing a Subaru, be sure to check their reliability records, they are one of the worst performing Japanese makes.

Rags

[spoogenet]

Yeah, I've heard varying things about Subaru reliability.

The WRX sits up a little high and I would expect lots of body roll...then again, it's based on a rally car....not exactly smooth road racing.

Well, if your car gets hit too hard and your doors cave in enough no airbag will ever be enough to save you. The ones that I think are most helpful would be the head curtain protection, it at least helps prevent shattered glass from cutting you or your head hitting the glass.

But they really put the sensor in the seat? I would have expected it to be in the door....are you talking about the airbag deployment sensor, or seat occupancy sensor that prevents them from firing unless the seat is occupied (by someone other than a baby for passenger seats)?

b

[Rags]

Well, if your car gets hit too hard and your doors cave in enough no airbag will ever be enough to save you. The ones that I think are most helpful would be the head curtain protection, it at least helps prevent shattered glass from cutting you or your head hitting the glass.

Side glass cutting you is very rare due to the safety glass that is used in today's cars, the idea is to keep your head from hitting the b pillar and causing head injuries, but those are few and far between in the grand scheme of things, and IMO, having an explosive go off to the side of you in just about every side collision is more dangerous anyhow.

But they really put the sensor in the seat? I would have expected it to be in the door....are you talking about the airbag deployment sensor, or seat occupancy sensor that prevents them from firing unless the seat is occupied (by someone other than a baby for passenger seats)?

b [/B]

No, no, no. They don't put the sensor in the seat. The SRS module monitors the resistance of the airbag deployment modules (there is one in the steering wheel, the passenger side dash, and if side srs is present, in the sides of the seat). The steering wheel module and passenger side module aren't subject to a great deal of flexing and pressure movement when compared to seat airbag modules. They have to be flexible and conform to seat safety standards AND retain a consistant resistance in their deployment module at the same time, and srs lights come on frequently on these cars because of it. when the light is on, srs is turned off.

Rags

[agallag]

Originally posted by Novdid
ABS is THE most important safety equipment you can get. If it's wet or a little slipery on the road it's VERY VERY important that your wheels don't lock when you brake. Even when it's dry your car will brake MUCH more effectively. If you don't have ABS you have to compensate it with pumping the brake with your foot, and ABS does that better than any person just as Rags said.

If you get a car, get one with ABS, it's more important than any airbag, period!!!

There is a very important disclaimer to go with this statement. Since not all ABS is created equal, a good abs system is important, while a not so good abs system is a very bad thing. Also, even a good abs system is only good on dry pavement and in rain. Put most of these systems out in the snow, and they're totally lost.

I've only driven two cars with abs, my brother's '91 Acura Legend, and my 2000 Protege. The protege simply pulses the brakes when any slippage is detected (I believe it's three channel, the two rear brakes are pulsed in unison, and the fronts are controlled individually). The Legend seems to have a better system all around, as you can feel it distributing the braking force around to the different wheels.

The problem is, and this occurs on both cars, snow. The theory behind abs is that you should be able to mash the brake pedal, and it'll take care of stopping you while maintaining steering control. However, if you're on a completely snow covered road, the whole system breaks down. A couple of times, when it was really slick out and I was travelling at about 30km/h (~20mph), mashing the brake does nothing but vibrate the car. It can take literally several hundred yards to stop if you just leave your foot on the brake. Steering is maintained, but stopping doesn't happen. The only way to stop within a reasonable distance is to manually release the brake and then apply just enough to avoid the abs kicking in. I've even tested this in open snow covered parking lots. Modulating the brake manually can cut 50% off my stopping distance.

There are even situations where complete lockup is preferrable. If you're on a gravel road and you have to stop now, with no chance to swerve (say to avoid a line of ducklings), locking up the wheels will create a little pile of gravel in front of your tires that will actually help you stop faster.

I'm not sure how much better the abs systems in bmw and mercedes are, maybe a little input from anyone who's driven them in serious snow and/or ice can comment. All I'm saying is, the systems i've experienced suck majorly, and I'd much rather do the braking myself. I've never had an accident or speeding ticket in the 11 years I've been driving (and I tend to drive very fast, although always in control), but in the two years I've had abs, I've had several close calls due to the crappy abs in my car. My brother's experience in his legend is similar.

[Gurm]

Ok a few thoughts.

1. The Kompressor has no rear seat. You can't fit your bike in it, or ANYTHING in it, 'cuz it ain't there. Or are you talking about the non-CLK model? Please clarify.

2. Hondas have excellent build quality. I concede this.

3. Buy a BMW. Honestly here. If you're thinking of spending $25k or more, there is no reason on earth to NOT own a Bimmer. Seriously.

My pet peeves:

A. "10 Year Warranty". Sure, on the POWER TRAIN. This is required by US Law. Has been for at least 10-15 years now. I love the fact that they're touting this as a selling point for Kia and Hyundai now. The truth is that they have a 5-year warranty on most of the mechanical parts, and good luck getting the stereo or the power seats fixed after year 1. The best warranty in the business? BMW or Volvo, equaled maybe by Saturn. Maybe not, too. Unlike MB or VW, there are no maintenance record requirements, and these warranties cover EVERYTHING except routine maintenance. You blow a tire? Covered. You need a belt? Covered. A/C needs a recharge? Covered. Thing the car is a bit drafty, want some extra insulation inside the driver's side door? Covered. You blow out a speaker on the H/K 10-channel surround system? Covered. You want a loaner while the car is in for an OIL CHANGE? Covered.

B. ABS. As above, I agree that a GOOD ABS system, especially when coupled with limited-slip differential or traction control (or both) is excellent. However, the ABS systems on 90+% of cars on the road do nothing except pulse the brakes. I can do that. I would prefer no ABS to American ABS, or most Japanese ABS. That said, the ABS on my Volvo, while loud and irritating (you can hear it working, like GADDAGADDAGADDA-AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH), causes me to stop in a linear straight line on sheer ice. Good stuff. The ABS on the Bimmer, while I haven't tested it as thoroughly (having only had the car for one winter) is equally good. Just remember - SNOW TIRES ARE MANDATORY. Especially on a RWD vehicle. There are only two common snow tires worth bothering with... Michelin Arctic Alpin (or Pilot Alpin) and Bridgestone Blizzak. Other good brands that you will have to order away for include Nokian, Gislaved (best in the WORLD for deep snow, those crazy swedes having it year round and all), and Haakepalita (sp?) which are great on a Bimmer...

C. FWD. Can I stress enough that I hate FWD? I find it amusing that while the marketing idiots go on and on about how awesome it is, the best cars in the world still use only RWD or AWD consistently. There are no FWD Bimmers, and there's only a FWD Mercedes in limited markets. Sports cars? All RWD.

D. Plastic. Can I please have some STEEL in my Car? I realize automobiles are now a disposable commodity, but it is reassuring to ride in a new MB or BMW and discover that SOME automakers still use industrial-grade steel in their vehicles.

E. Airbags. Airbags kill people... in much the same way that guns don't and people do. It is now mandatory that any and all auxiliary airbags be user-controllable. It is also mandatory that the dealer allow you to disable the driver's airbag, although you'll have to sign a waiver. I signed it. No airbags for me, thanks. Here's a sample scenario... this actually happened to the EDITOR of Car & Driver. This guy used to race professionally. He's arguably one of the best drivers in the world, and he refuses to ever use airbags. Here's why:

... He was driving on a 2-lane country road in his Mercedes, when all of a sudden a deer jumps into the road. Too late to stop, he brakes and swerves, but the front driver's side bumper clips the deer. Now mind you, he has the car under control. 100% traction, still on the road. Could have kept driving, except...

... The airbag goes off. Oops! Now, his arms are crossed because he was swerving. So, both forearms and his nose are broken by the airbag. Unable to see or continue steering, he loses control of the vehicle...

... And careens off the road, totaling the car and sustaining even more injuries in the process!

Yeah, airbags are a GOOD idea. The woman who invented them refused to endorse them, saying that for every life they saved, they'd take one. GREAT. Good safety idea.

- Gurm

[spoogenet]

I used to think all the bad things said about ABS and would always maintain that I'd prefer no ABS, then I began to see many benefits to ABS and conceded that they are great. Now you all make me think I should go back....well, unless I get GOOD ABS.

I also heard that many insurance companies aren't giving discounts anymore for ABS because they have been found ineffective in many cases. Some reasons include people still pumping the brakes....but I'm sure there's more to it than that.

On the airbag issue, I now get what you were saying about sensors, Rags. I was the passenger in a Honda when Bambi was hit one time, clipped the front right bumper, tow hook tore the crap out of poor Bambi....I was very thankful that the airbags didn't deploy. We were at least able to take a damage control inventory then continue our trip to our final destination. Few repairs later and the car's fine, but if the airbags had deployed, then it woulda been a whole different story. Although an unfortunate incident, at least it wasn't one of Bambi's parents...it could have been a different story if that were the case.

I'd rather RWD or AWD....problem is it's very limited availability in the US.

And to clarify the BMW thing, I'd love a BMW, but the $25 and up range is kinda out of my reach. I know I said I was considering cars up to about $28, but that's a far stretch, and I should only really be considering cars under $22, preferably used around $16. The main reason I'm considering new right now is because I can get what I want, I just have to pay more for it. But a white or silver 5sp (or 6sp) used car with the features I have mentioned before....well, let's just put it this way. Not many are made by manufacturers each year, even less are sold on the used market. Maybe the case is different for BMW, though, I've mainly investigated the used Honda market.

I don't get it....if Americans have such a love affair with their cars, why don't they get cars that are more fun to drive? Maybe because it would be too hard to talk on a cell phone, put on makeup, feed the kids in the back seat, eat a burger and drink a big gulp while shifting? Let's see, one foot for gas/brake, one foot for steering, one hand for makeup/burger/drink, one hand for feeding the kids, hold cell phone between ear and shoulder.....change the radio with nose....yeah, it's possible.

b

[Wombat]

I eat in the car on occasion, but only with my right hand, and only in stable driving conditions. I do drive with my knees in very limited conditions, but that was also easier on my Caprice than on my Sentra. That said:

My friend wins the crown for most impressive "driving while..." claim. He's a California driver, and therefore already worthy of being shot. But one day he managed to drive a stickshift through the city while eating pizza and drinking a cup of soda. The most impressive moment in the story is when he put the pizza on the dashboard with his left hand, took the soda from right hand to left, shifted with the right while turning left, and snagging the pizza with the right hand as it slid across the dashboard.

[spoogenet]

Impressive.

Oh, and Gurm, in response to your Kompressor having no seat, I'm talking C230, not SLK or CLK or whatever else they gots. The C230 is a 3door (coupe + hatchback), has a fold-down rear seat, and probably would fit my bike....the interior is probably roughly the same size as a GTI, plus or minus a little.

What I find amusing, though, is that the C230 has rear A/C vents (unlike most cars)....but barely has a back seat.

edit: damn tpyos.

b

[Gurm]

Oh, c'mon. For $16-20k I could have had a mid-90's M3! I settled for a nice 325is for $12k. I've put MAYBE $2500 into it, in purely preventative and cosmetic stuff.

- Gurm

[Wombat]

I wish I knew where Gurm was finding his cars. I couldn't find used Bimmers even remotely close to that price range.

[Rags]

Yeah, me too. I can't even find a used bimmer that is in good enough shape in that price range.

My experience with Bavarian Manure Wagons is they are fine driving cars and can be okay in reliability, but they are far from the best. Anectodotal evidence from a few owners is just not a good indicator. I tend to trust what I see coming in front of me when I work on these things beyond what owners tell me. Not to mention the JD powers reports on BMW's dependability, they are not THAT much better than others, but are higher than average..

Rags

[agallag]

I think the only way you guys can get a decent and cheap used 3-series is to come up here to buy one and drive it back down. You can get a high-quality low-mileage loaded '96 328i 5-speed for around $20-21k canadian, which is about $12.5-13.5k in real (US)money. You'll have to deal with metric gauges and daytime running lights, but the former you'll get used to (and can get replaced for a few hundred bones), and the latter really are a good safety feature.

Myself, I'd be more likely to get a new maxima or altima 3.5 before a used bmw. I want my first bimmer to be brand spankin' new.

[Gurm]

You just have to be willing to go back a few years. If you want a 2000 330 then no, you can't have that for under $25. If you want a 1996 328... that's doable.

But let's be honest here - Bimmer engines last for 300k miles or more. I bought mine with 100k on the odometer, and expect it to last me until 2010.

You can have a nice mid-to-late 90's 3 series for short money. My brother bought a 1994 with low mileage (60k) and a warranty for $14.5k, two years ago. When I was shopping for mine, I found a 1996 M3 which was SO SWEET that I nearly overspent (they wanted $19k).

As for reliability - yeah your Honda will outperform the Bimmer in that regard. But will it be fun to drive?

- Gurm