GeForce4 info slips.

[TdB]

I don´t think the GF4 will be that successfull, the low-end cards will have a hard time with ATI and Powervr(in price/performance), and the high-end cards will probably loose to Matrox and ATI.
After all the GF4 is still a dx8.0 (maybe dx8.1, but i don´t think so), while i expect ATI and Matrox to release dx9 cards.
However, for a month or two i expect the GF4 to be the fastest thing(but only for a month or two).

[superfly]

Well,i'm expecting the new GF4 card to be about 30~40% faster than the GF3 ti in real world performance,if those specs are accurate of course.....


Saying that ATI's R300(radion 3???) will be out in april is a litle optimistic IMO,since all i've heard is that they would start to sample the chip by late feb/early march,so it would be tough to see it on retail shelves by april.


I'm guessing it's more realistic to expect it in the may/june timeframe.....


Not that i'm really that interested in getting a new card right now since my 2.2 p4(got it yesterday) and GF3(have it for 10 months now),will still haul ass for pretty much any game released this year,at least as far as the video card is concerned....

[cbman]

If they release it soon

If they release it soon I wonder if they will devalue their current run of highend Geforce 3 Cards or if they will just jack up the price another 2 or 3 hundred bucks (Canadian)

[superfly]

Nah...i think that Nvidia got the message and i don't think they'll release cards over the 600$ CAN price point anymore,not while ATi is still there with a decent product to compete with costing 150~175$ less...



Besides it looks like it might very well be true that ATI will soon release a 128 meg version of the Radion 8500 clocked at 300 core and memory(called the 8700),just in time for the release of the GF4,and will most likely sell for under the GF4's price(for the high end version of course)....So a 300/300 Radion 8700 against a 300/350 mhz GF4,when all the basic specs are the same should be an interesting fight if even better drivers are released from ATI by then,and they are slowly improving.


The vextex shader on the radion is much faster than the gf3's or the higher clocked TI version and it'll most likely take the the added vertex shader on the gf4(if the specs are true)to slightly beat it and the gf4 will probably add P.shaders v1.4 just like ATI already has,so specification wise,there isn't that much to seperate both cards.

[Novdid]

I'm not sure you're 100% right on this one superfly, but I guess we'll see about that.

[superfly]

Mind you,i'm sure either and it may very well be just one more rumor to add to the billions floating out there...


But what is a fact is that the fireGL cards that use the radion 8500 chip are clocked at 300mhz and also use 300 ddr sdram as well,so it' stands to reason that if ATI decides to maket those cards they have the ability to do so,should they choose to.

[TdB]

Saying that ATI's R300(radion 3???) will be out in april is a litle optimistic IMO,since all i've heard is that they would start to sample the chip by late feb/early march,so it would be tough to see it on retail shelves by april.

i didn´t say that, im just optimistic about the release date for the next matrox card
i still believe in the rumor about Q1 2002, unless microsoft is late with dx9.
ATI isn´t nvidia biggest concern this time

i don´t know anything, i just got a hunch

[Nappe1]

Originally posted by superfly
Well,i'm expecting the new GF4 card to be about 30~40% faster than the GF3 ti in real world performance,if those specs are accurate of course.....

whoah... you are expecting a lot! conserning that it will have faster memories and 2 vertex shaders instead of one, I don't think we will see much more than 15% increase, maybe even less.

Originally posted by superfly
Saying that ATI's R300(radion 3???) will be out in april is a litle optimistic IMO,since all i've heard is that they would start to sample the chip by late feb/early march,so it would be tough to see it on retail shelves by april.

well, here I agree. it will most likely to be on summer on earliest. Still it doesn't look like very big jump after R200... (but definately much more than NV25 is looking.)

Originally posted by superfly
I'm guessing it's more realistic to expect it in the may/june timeframe.....

Not that i'm really that interested in getting a new card right now since my 2.2 p4(got it yesterday) and GF3(have it for 10 months now),will still haul ass for pretty much any game released this year,at least as far as the video card is concerned....

well, in old games without DX8 vertex shader support, I don't think you will lose more than few lousy fps ( maybe 65 instead of 75 ) so GF4 is looking like money collector to nVidia than something that I would like to pay for. (it is actually just XBox chip with faster memories and maybe new fsaa method and of course, with a brand new level of price tag.)

[Nappe1]

Originally posted by TDB


i didn´t say that, im just optimistic about the release date for the next matrox card
i still believe in the rumor about Q1 2002, unless microsoft is late with dx9.
ATI isn´t nvidia biggest concern this time

i don´t know anything, i just got a hunch

I have a hunch too. So I am here just speculating...
anyways, it looks like Matrox is going to launch at least chips, most likely also the boards on Q1/2002. But because it also looks like that DX9 is coming on July/August, I suspect that we will see new Matrox card, with full DX8 / DX8.1 compliancy and with additional DX9 features like displacement mapping and internal 48 and/or 64 bit rendering precision. (frame buffer will most likely to be 32 bits.)

those new features will come available when DX9 is out...

and as said it is just a hunch...

[cbman]

I have a hunch too... I get up really early in the morning just to drive a couple of hours east to go hang out at the Tim Hortons near Matrox... It just so happens that quite a few employees like to go there to blow of steam and to doodle designs and specs on napkins... and from overhearing some conversations and by looking over shoulders and stuff I have a strange feeling that the code phrase "Montezuma's Revenge" has some significant importance.

Something about, "A whole new XPeriance, It will hit you harder and faster than Montezuma's Revenge will on your first trip to Mexico"

Sounds like one bad *** card to me.

[Elie]

The Gefart 4 will be the same chip as what's in the Xbox, beefed up a bit to support DX 9.

ATI on the other hand may have a good chip, but won't be released for quite some time, the Radeon 8500 was only released a few months ago, so unless they too are on a 6 month product release I suspect the new chip wil be released mid to end of 2002.

[superfly]

Nappe...i believe that the nv25,at least in it's high end iteration,could very well be about 30~35% faster in situations that are fill rate/bandwith limited relative to a stock clocked GF3 TI...

I mean ddr sdram clocked at 350 mhz(700 DDR) on a 128 bit bus would dish out about 11.2 gigs/sec worth of bandwith,about 25~30% more bandwith than 250mhz(500 DDR) memory that the current GF3/GF3 TI uses(8.1 gig/sec),and that's assuming they don't make improvements in their crossbar memory tech as well and just carry over the one in the original GF3,which is unlikely.......


And a 300 mhz GF3 core will need every last bit of that bandwith to make stand out in a meaningfull way over a GF3 TI,at least when it's clocked at stock speeds,since they're known to be quite the overclockers.......My original GF3 has been clocked at 240 mhz core and 265 mhz( 530 DDR) for about 9 months straight running serveral hour gaming sessions even in near 30*C temps during the summer without so much as a hiccup,regardless of game.....


Anyways it'll take more than that 30% speed bump in my case to make me change cards regardless,i want at least a card that can outrun my own by at least 50% and with full DX9 compliance as well before i even think of changing cards.....That's what i'd like to see from my next card,until then my existing one will do fine at least until the end of the year,so that gives matrox plenty of time to come up with something.......

[roadie]

I have a hunch too... I get up really early in the morning just to drive a couple of hours east to go hang out at the Tim Hortons near Matrox... It just so happens that quite a few employees like to go there to blow of steam and to doodle designs and specs on napkins... and from overhearing some conversations and by looking over shoulders and stuff I have a strange feeling that the code phrase "Montezuma's Revenge" has some significant importance.

we need more info!

also which website was it that guessed what the g550 was going to be last time??? they might have some more info soon

[Wombat]

Superfly, I wouldn't be shocked if nVidia did manage to turn around the GF4 that fast. They do have a history of rapid turnarounds.

ATI is plagued by driver problems, and Matrox has been narrowing their support as of late. I for one hope that the next Matrox card doesn't have too many special features, since they seem to stop supporting them so fast these days (G200 DVD add-on, Marvel, eTv, W2K). The last thing I want to do is lay down big bucks on some fancy-shmancy card from Matrox, so that 6 months later, only the features it shares with it's half-price brother are supported.

[TdB]

and from overhearing some conversations and by looking over shoulders and stuff I have a strange feeling that the code phrase "Montezuma's Revenge" has some significant importance

hey! isn´t that a C64 game?