Hooters Air.. now this is more like it!

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Pace
So how come every girl I know is going out with a wimp or a pimp?

Because their feminist clique encourages them to go out with the worst men so they can get really fed up and decide to hate ALL men.

You're in college, right? Don't you notice the feminist training going on there? Seriously, it's like the Hitler youth or something. Total indoctrination of the innocent.

[Wombat]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
Because their feminist clique encourages them to go out with the worst men so they can get really fed up and decide to hate ALL men.

You're in college, right? Don't you notice the feminist training going on there? Seriously, it's like the Hitler youth or something. Total indoctrination of the innocent.

You know, you and the real world really need to sit down and have a chat sometime.

[KvHagedorn]

I suppose you've never been obliquely blamed for a prior boyfriend's shortcomings?

And the feminism at college thing used to be a pretty virulent disease when I was in school. We were regularly attacked by groups of them with flyers telling us not to watch porn or we would all become rapists. Those wackos are the ones who need to get in touch with reality.

[Wombat]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
I suppose you've never been obliquely blamed for a prior boyfriend's shortcomings?

Nope. A guy/girl having hang-ups from caused by problems with previous girlfriends/boyfriends is nothing new. It is not unique to either sex, and is not a side-effect of this feminism that you live in such fear of.

And the feminism at college thing used to be a pretty virulent disease when I was in school.

That's because when you were in school you expected women to "know their place." And it's no disease, it's just asking for equality. Were they overzealous in their efforts? People like you are evidence that the world still needs some work, so I guess not.

We were regularly attacked by groups of them with flyers telling us not to watch porn or we would all become rapists. Those wackos are the ones who need to get in touch with reality.

So now it's okay that ****oles like Ashcroft as the ones saying it, rather than some women? It's the idea that's flawed, but you only seem to be noticing it from groups you already have decided to hate.



P.S. If you think that this is ruining the country, or some such shit: Do you think this country would have been able to help win WWII if it weren't for the women on the homefront doing the "men's work?" The concept of Rosie the Riveter was probably one of the best pushes forward this country could have ever gotten. Just yesterday I had breakfast with a very nice woman who happened to be a WAVE during the war, and helped run the bomber training program. Judging by the way her granddaughter turned out, I'm thankful she lived the life she did.

[SpiralDragon]

Originally posted by Pace
So how come every girl I know is going out with a wimp or a pimp?

when i figure that one out i will let you know....

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Wombat
People like you are evidence that the world still needs some work, so I guess not...

but you only seem to be noticing it from groups you already have decided to hate.

And when did I personally attack you?

Look, you might hate my guts, and frankly, I don't care. I try and face the truth no matter how ugly it has become. Men have their place just like women do, and it isn't that of some Roman Emperor eating grapes while his woman kisses his feet. It's supposed to be about equality, as you say.. but someone once said (and I forgot who it was but it was a valid point,) "make women equal and you will make them superior." A great many women view men with contempt nowadays, and this is something you applaud?

By the way, my mother was a "Rosie the Riveter" too.. worked on B24s at the Corpus Christi Naval Air Station during the war. And you hate how her son turned out.

[Wombat]

You never attacked me, and I never attacked you. Your beliefs are just ass-backwards man. Those are what I criticize. Given the context of the rest of my post, "people like you" is a perfectly valid, and fairly clear, catagorization of you into a group that you've already identified yourself in. Nothing wrong with that.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Wombat
You never attacked me, and I never attacked you. Your beliefs are just ass-backwards man. Those are what I criticize. Given the context of the rest of my post, "people like you" is a perfectly valid, and fairly clear, catagorization of you into a group that you've already identified yourself in. Nothing wrong with that.

Yeah there is something wrong with that. I don't fit neatly into any group. You seem to think I am just some sort of mindless arch-conservative who buys into whatever crap the religious right puts out or something. If I overstate my points sometimes, and I do occasionally and pointedly overstate them, it is to make people sit up and think. There is too much going on that people don't think about.. they simply more or less allow the mass mentality to do their thinking for them because it is easier and "well, the majority is always right, right?"

There are very real problems with the sociology of the Western World today. It has been haphazardly re-ordered in the past 100 years (and especially in the last 35) into something completely unrecognizable to anyone who had lived from the stone age up until WWI. People who were supposedly great intellectuals made naive mistakes during the "enlightenment" and we wound up with Napoleon. People now have been throwing around all sorts of indignant platitudes based upon what makes them feel good, and you think there is greater wisdom in this? My "ass-backwards" ideas, as you put them, did quite well for mankind for all but the past century of his existence. And what have your new ideas brought us? We are on the verge of being taken over by a culture which is even more ass-backwards than you could possibly accuse me of being.

You know, I love hearing liberals talk with horror about taking "steps backwards" or "turning back the clock" or whatever. They are so presumptuous.. to simply assume that they are on the right path to begin with. Of course, if you are on the wrong path and finally realize that this is so, to get back to the right path you need to take a few steps backward to get there. Any sane person does not continue on a mistaken path when he sees the precipice yawn before him. The "reactionaries" of the Congress of Vienna gave the world a century of relative peace and prosperity after the mess created by Napoleon. There were good ideas during the so-called "Age of Reason," but they were good mainly AS ideas.. things just don't work properly when you try and disrupt the natural order of the age and replace it with some sort of misbegotten idealism all of a sudden. The good ideas eventually work themselves in, and the bad ones eventually prove how bad they are (unfortunately, with often catastrophic side effects.)

Anyhow, enough of this. Why don't you stop and think about what I've been saying and allow that there might be some truth in it. Don't just slap some sticker on it that says "ass-backwards" and think no more, simply because it flies in the face of what's currently in fashion.

[Fat Tone]

What happened to you KvH? Why did you turn out this way? You have to be the MOST anti-feminist, opinionated person on these forums. I remember when you first joined murc, and you seemed to be much more relaxed.

What happened Kev?

T.

[KvHagedorn]

Well, true, there are some personal experiences with out-of-control women, but the real problem I have with the idea of feminism is that it is merely a self-serving powergrab masquerading as a high-minded ideal; and much, MUCH worse, it is absolutely tearing apart the fabric of society. Women are refusing to have children now, which is a very frightening thing, because where is the future without children to pass it on to? Things would probably work themselves out eventually, but by that time other problems from outside will have rolled over us all and crushed our civilization into the dust. I'm just finding it impossible to be happy in this sort of dreadful-beyond-belief scenario. Oh, and then there's the terrorism and nutcase dictators with nukes and anthrax thrown in for good measure.. I'm telling you, we will be lucky to survive another 25 years.

[The PIT]

Originally posted by Pace
So how come every girl I know is going out with a wimp or a pimp?

Now which one are you a whimp or pimp.

[Pace]

Explain what a 'whimp' is and I'll get back to you.

[Fat Tone]

its a 'Wheakly Interacting Massive Particle'

[Umfriend]

[INDIGNANT MODE]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
It's supposed to be about equality, as you say.. but someone once said (and I forgot who it was but it as a valid point,) "make women equal and you will make them superior."

So what should we conclude from that point then? Should we NOT accept equality between men and women, or differently? How do we get around this paradox? Or is it just a point that looks smart but is stupid?

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
A great many women view men with contempt nowadays, and this is something you applaud?

I don't think Wombat applauded this. I wonder how many men feel contempted (is this english?)? I don't.

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
I don't fit neatly into any group.

I have to say KvH, too often do you refer too groups directly or by implication or do you attack peoples and/or groups by implication. Tell me, how many feminists attacked you with flyers? Did they hurt at all? How many feminists do you think actually hate ALL men? And I bet they're all lesbians as well? How many of them deserve to be compared to, and as if the are as bad as, the Hitler youth?

About personally attacking, you do that in a very sophisticated manner. It's always hard to pinpoint it eaxactly, but when you say:

they simply more or less allow the mass mentality to do their thinking for them because it is easier and "well, the majority is always right, right?"

I read it as if it is directed to Wombat directly. You don't actually say it, but with such a small audience and a clear argument between you and him(/her?), does it really make sense to talk about "they" and "them"? Who are they? Whom were we talking about? No one else but Wombat and anyone in this forum that might agree with him.

Same with

You know, I love hearing liberals talk [...]

What liberals? Who are they? Name some of them please and how the hell did they end up in this argument. Or did you actually mean particular people, possible members of MURC, possible even Wombat mainly?

You have to understand though, I'm not from the USA. I've only been to Manhattan for a week and that is it. It may be that colleges in the US are totally different from over here. It may be that your feminists are just masquerading high-minded ideals as a self-serving powergrab. In that case, I clearly misunderstand at least some of the things you are saying and how you say them. Would appreciate it though if you could at least show that you realise that my feminists may be different from yours. Same goes for my liberals and yours. Last time I looked, MURC wasn't solely for the US.
[/INDIGNANT MODE]
Kind rgds,
Umf

[Pace]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
Because their feminist clique encourages them to go out with the worst men so they can get really fed up and decide to hate ALL men.

You're in college, right? Don't you notice the feminist training going on there? Seriously, it's like the Hitler youth or something. Total indoctrination of the innocent.

Nope, have I not advertised I work for Sun enough yet?