English language question...

[GNEP]

If you hear it, how can you be sure that the people saying it aren't just mispronouncing run? It could be that their grammar/spelling is fine, but the pronunciation is a little quircky

[cjolley]

Originally posted by GNEP
If you hear it, how can you be sure that the people saying it aren't just mispronouncing run? It could be that their grammar/spelling is fine, but the pronunciation is a little quircky

Oh, take my word for it.
It comes out raaan, with no hint of h or long a.
Maybe just a touch of y.
Our Oklahoma accent just makes it worse.

chuck

PS Besides, why would "it run Friday" make me feel any better?

[GNEP]

hehe

[VJ]

What have I started....

Brian: I have 2 Oxford dictionaries, and none of them list "thusly", however some spell-checkers do seem to accept it...

Jammrock: "previously defined structure" has a slightly different meaning. If you first define several structures, then then the use of "previously" seems to be to be referring to a structure before that..
e.g.:
"Define structure 1... Define structure 2... In contrast to the previously defined structure, the thusly defined structure...)"
I have the feeling that "previously" refers to structure 1, whereas "thusly" (or whatever should be used) refers to structure 2...
(but this is how I see it, I could be wrong though; English is not my native language)

Jörg

[Brian Ellis]

Jörg

In the Oxford electronic version, it is not in the dictionary section but it is in the thesaurus version under "thus":
1 so, in this manner or way or fashion or wise, as follows, Non-Standard thusly: On receipt of the payment, I wrote thus to him.
2 therefore, ergo, consequently, as a consequence, as a result, accordingly, (and) so, then, for this or that reason, hence, in which case or event, that being the case, that being so: He has already decided; thus, your efforts to persuade him are useless. It is not in the Quotations, either, so you have no precedent.

I maintain my original suggestion:
The correct locution is "In the thus defined structure.", which is both correct and explicit. I agree that 'previously' may be ambiguous in the context you mention but you may use "In the last-named (or even last-defined) structure." for the greatest precision.

[KvHagedorn]

"Ain't" seems to me more like a mispronunciation of "aren't" for some reason.. much more likely than a dubious attempt to contract "am not."

As to "thusly," Brian is right.. such colorful variants might be out of place in a technical paper.

This reminds me of the minister at a church we attended when I was young.. he regularly said "Thank you very muchly." When I asked my parents why he said it that way, I was told that he was from Canada.

[mutz]

Yep Gnep

Brian, Gurm, Kv et al - Recommended reading:

- All and Everything or Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson by George Inanovitch Gurdjieff

- Uncle Remus - His Songs and His Sayings by Joel Chandler Harris

Wreck for the intellect and diamonds for the soul.

[KvHagedorn]

There are a lot of literary masterpieces full of colloquiallism, but in a formal scientific paper, the demands of language are different. In books like Huckleberry Finn and The Sound and the Fury colloquiallism plays a major role. In other works, nonstandard English lends color.. it's just a matter of whether or not it is appropriate.

[mutz]

Intellect is the greatest inhibitor of intelligence I know of, and "formal" and "scientific" are certainly the greatest inhibitors of science.

Here is one the greatest examples of geting the message across ever written"

"Brer Fox, he wink his eye slow, en lay low, en de Tar-Baby, she ain't sayin' nuthin'.
"'How you come on, den? Is you deaf?' sez Brer Rabbit, sezee. 'Kaze if you is, I kin holler louder,' sezee.
"Tar-Baby stay still, en Brer Fox, he lay low.
"'You er stuck up, dat's w'at you is,' says Brer Rabbit, sezee, 'en I'm gwine ter kyore you, dat's w'at I'm a gwine ter do,' sezee.
"Brer Fox, he sorter chuckle in his stummick, he did, but Tar-Baby ain't sayin' nothin'.
"'I'm gwine ter larn you how ter talk ter 'spectubble folks ef hit's de las' ack,' sez Brer Rabbit, sezee. 'Ef you don't take off dat hat en tell me howdy, I'm gwine ter bus' you wide open,' sezee.
"Tar-Baby stay still, en Brer Fox, he lay low.
"Brer Rabbit keep on axin' 'im, en de Tar-Baby, she keep on sayin' nothin', twel present'y Brer Rabbit draw back wid his fis', he did, en blip he tuck 'er side er de head. Right dar's whar he broke his merlasses jug. His fis' stuck, en he can't pull loose. De tar hilt 'im. But Tar-Baby, she stay still, en Brer Fox, he lay low.
"`Ef you don't lemme loose, I'll knock you agin,' sez Brer Rabbit, sezee, en wid dat he fotch 'er a wipe wid de udder han', en dat stuck. Tar-Baby, she ain'y sayin' nuthin', en Brer Fox, he lay low.
"`Tu'n me loose, fo' I kick de natal stuffin' outen you,' sez Brer Rabbit, sezee, but de Tar-Baby, she ain't sayin' nuthin'. She des hilt on, en de Brer Rabbit lose de use er his feet in de same way. Brer Fox, he lay low. Den Brer Rabbit squall out dat ef de Tar-Baby don't tu'n 'im loose he butt 'er cranksided. En den he butted, en his head got stuck. Den Brer Fox, he sa'ntered fort', lookin' dez ez innercent ez wunner yo' mammy's mockin'-birds.
"`Howdy, Brer Rabbit,' sez Brer Fox, sezee. `You look sorter stuck up dis mawnin',' sezee, en den he rolled on de groun', en laft en laft twel he couldn't laff no mo'. `I speck you'll take dinner wid me dis time, Brer Rabbit. I done laid in some calamus root, en I ain't gwineter take no skuse,' sez Brer Fox, sezee."

[Gurm]

Uncle Remus is "cute".

It's "culturally relevant".

It is not "good literature". Please don't confuse the two.

- Gurm

[Brian Ellis]

Spot on, Gurm.

Here is one the greatest examples of geting the message across ever written"

So "greatest", I can't even understand half of it and the other half needs great concentration.

Technical or scientific papers, which are what this thread is all about, should not even be colloquial, let alone dialectal. They are usually read by peers of many nationalities, of many mother-tongues, so must be written in clear language. I doubt whether many non-Americans appreciate the language of Brer Rabbit & Co. and certainly not those of non-English mother-tongue (except possibly a very few exposed to US culture from an early age).

[Gurm]

And it would have to be those exposed to a particular subset of US culture.

- Gurm

[mutz]

What I love about you guys is how perfectly you prove the point and are totally unaware of it.
*chuckle*

[Gurm]

mutz,

Sorry but no. You can claim that you gained "true insight" and "amazing knowledge" from Uncle Remus all you want. I maintain that poorly written literature may have cultural value but has no deep secrets to teach us.

This is like progressive "musicians" claiming that they have DEEP MUSICAL SECRETS to share with the rest of us, and they can only do it by playing "twinkle twinkle little star" on a piano that has been purposely taken out of tune. Sorry.

You can sit there and smirk and say "you're proving my point" all you want. Doesn't make it true. You're proving MY point.

- Gurm

[mutz]

Forget it.

Not gettin stuck on yo tar baby.