I've lost money

[cjolley]

Originally posted by Umfriend
On the scam, what stock do you buy? The banks' own stock to be newly issued, i.e. are they creating more equities? What is the market value of these equities. Same question if it's equities in another firm your bank owns. It doesn't work either way, but I'd like to know where you are coming from to show exactly.

Hmm....
This may explain why I am a programmer and not a financial whiz

Originally posted by GNEP

...you have both gained, but he has liquidated his gains...

See? Nothing realy happened unless and untill the asset was liquidated.

chuck

[Jon P. Inghram]

Did you buy the stocks to support the company or companies, or did you just think you'd make some easy money without doing anything?

[cjolley]

Originally posted by Jon P. Inghram
Did you buy the stocks to support the company or companies, or did you just think you'd make some easy money without doing anything?

Easy money? Are you kidding me?
I bought Starbucks and now we go there so often I feel like I'm supporting the whole enterprise on my back.
chuck

[GNEP]

Chuck - you didn't answer my question

Jon - LOL

[Jon P. Inghram]

I've got a bad attitude, I know.

[cjolley]

Originally posted by GNEP
Chuck - you didn't answer my question ...

Sorry, it got lost in a big edit.

I would pick "B' of course.
But like you and everybody else, it would be because of what would happen if I desired or needed to liquidate the asset.
The asset it's self is just paper. Or, these days, not even that, just a bookeeping entry.

chuck

[GNEP]

B? But:

Originally posted by cjolley
Nothing realy happened unless and untill the asset was liquidated.

surely?

[cjolley]

Originally posted by GNEP
B? But: surely?

It is the anticipation of a possible sale that make people care about the value of thier non-cash assets.

It is the conversion of the asset to cash when the market price is low that hurts.
Not the market price it's self.

Your net worth does go down if the value of your non-cash assets go down.
But unless and untill you sell you will not suffer pain.
(unless you count fear as painfull)

chuck

[GNEP]

I disagree. When the value of your stock goes down, the cash that it can be converted to goes down, and the number of loaves of bread that you can buy in the future with your stock of wealth now has also gone down.

What you are saying could equally well be applied to coins and paper cash: all these are is stores of wealth - say there were a sudden devaluation of your currency, or an inflationary spike. Suddenly you can't buy as many loaves of bread in the future.

Please don't try and argue that that loss of future-bread-buying-ability does not hurt the rational cash-holder? Sure they don't feel hungry NOW, but it's not dinner time yet

[cjolley]

Originally posted by GNEP
I disagree. When the value of your stock goes down, the cash that it can be converted to goes down, and the number of loaves of bread that you can buy in the future with your stock of wealth now has also gone down.

What you are saying could equally well be applied to coins and paper cash: all these are is stores of wealth - say there were a sudden devaluation of your currency, or an inflationary spike. Suddenly you can't buy as many loaves of bread in the future.

Please don't try and argue that that loss of future-bread-buying-ability does not hurt the rational cash-holder? Sure they don't feel hungry NOW, but it's not dinner time yet

But we're not talking about the FUTURE bread buying power of non-cash assets converted to cash.
We're talking about about the CURRENT bread buying power of non-cash assets that AREN'T converted to cash.
Which is always exactly 0 loaves.
chuck

PS Of course you could barter for bread, but then you would be using your stocks as currency and would have to agree with the seller on a price in loaves per stock share which would still involve converting your stocks to cash (literaly).

PPS Every thing else is just fear and atici

[cjolley]

pation

[GNEP]

Originally posted by cjolley
We're talking about about the CURRENT bread buying power of non-cash assets that AREN'T converted to cash.

I think my analogy actually works just as well if it's dinner time NOW.

And so the only difference we have is that I say that the current value of stocks is equivalent to cash, and you say it's not. Personally speaking, stocks are one of my more liquid assets. In fact, very often more liquid than money in a notice-required savings account...

Would you say that if the bank unexpectedly (but lawfully) charged you 10 USD and took it out of your notice account, that wouldn't "hurt" for a month because you couldn't have withdrawn the notes and coins before the 30 day notice period was up? Or does it in fact hurt as soon as you find out?

Agree with this?

(This is starting to get silly...can we have a prize for the wierdest analogy please? )

[cjolley]

Originally posted by GNEP
...Would you say that if the bank unexpectedly (but lawfully) charged you 10 USD and took it out of your notice account, that wouldn't "hurt" for a month because you couldn't have withdrawn the notes and coins before the 30 day notice period was up? Or does it in fact hurt as soon as you find out?

Becky would be down there talking them out of it so fast I would never know till she told me.
And then it would already be taken care of.
chuck

[GNEP]

ROFL

[cjolley]

Originally posted by GNEP
...And so the only difference we have is that I say that the current value of stocks is equivalent to cash, and you say it's not...

Oh, we even agree that they are equal.
I think that's true by definition.

I just don't think they are congruent.
Therefore, if you aren't selling the current price is meaningless.
However good or bad the price might make you feel.
chuck