Laser burns pilot's eye

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  • Dr Mordrid
    Moderator
    • Apr 2001
    • 26592

    #1

    Laser burns pilot's eye

    Laser injures Delta pilot's eye

    By Bill Gertz

    THE WASHINGTON TIMES


    A pilot flying a Delta Air Lines jet was injured by a laser that illuminated the cockpit of the aircraft as it approached Salt Lake City International Airport last week, U.S. officials said.

    The plane's two pilots reported that the Boeing 737 had been five miles from the airport when they saw a laser beam inside the cockpit, said officials familiar with government reports of the Sept. 22 incident. The flight, which originated in Dallas, landed without further incident at about 9:30 p.m. local time.

    A short while later, however, the first officer felt a stinging sensation in one eye. A doctor who examined the pilot determined that he had suffered a burned retina from exposure to a laser device, the officials said.

    Transportation Security Administration (TSA) spokeswoman Yolanda Clark confirmed the incident, but declined to provide details.

    "TSA is aware of the incident, and we are working with the airline in conducting an investigation to try and determine the cause of the incident," Miss Clark said.

    She would not say whether TSA considers the incident a possible security threat to commercial aircraft. Other officials said the incident was serious enough that the pilot will be unable to fly for at least a week.

    "So far, it doesn't sound like there will be permanent [eye] damage," one official said.

    The identity of the pilot could not be learned, and Delta spokesman Anthony Black declined to comment.

    Officials were unsure of the source of the laser and could not determine whether the exposure was deliberate or accidental.

    John Mazor, a spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association, said commercial pilots have been exposed to laser illumination.

    "The Air Line Pilots Association has received reports in the past of incidents where lasers penetrated cockpits and, in at least one case, caused injury," Mr. Mazor said.

    Several years ago, a pilot flying into a Western airport was hit by a light from a laser light show. The causes of the other incidents are not known, he said.

    Asked whether a laser aimed at pilots could cause a plane to crash, Mr. Mazor said: "I think that's highly improbable. In every case in the past, the flights landed safely."

    Military personnel also have suffered eye damage from laser illumination.

    In one case, Naval Lt. Cmdr. Jack Daly and Canadian helicopter pilot Capt. Pat Barnes suffered eye injuries hours after an aerial surveillance mission to photograph a Russian merchant ship that had been shadowing the ballistic-missile submarine USS Ohio in Washington state's Strait of Juan de Fuca.

    The Navy recently turned down an appeal from the Defense Department inspector general to award Cmdr. Daly a Purple Heart for the incident. Cmdr. Daly, who retired from the service last year, continues to suffer eye pain and deteriorating vision.

    During congressional testimony in 1999, he warned of laser threats to pilots.

    "Numerous documented cases regarding the use of lasers against aircraft, civilians and military personnel exist, as well as does an all-too-lengthy list of the injuries that have resulted from the accidental and intentional misuse of these devices," Cmdr. Daly told a House Armed Services subcommittee.

    He noted that incidents of lasers being directed at commercial airliners during takeoff and landings have raised fears that "this in fact may be a new form of terrorism."

    "Lasers are easily obtainable and can be self-manufactured weapons in the terrorist arsenal, which essentially can effect a soft-kill solution and leave virtually no detectable evidence," he said.
    Dr. Mordrid
    Dr. Mordrid
    ----------------------------
    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps
  • cjolley
    Super MURCer
    • Aug 1999
    • 7672

    #2
    Strange.
    I could be wrong, but it strikes me that only a military laser would have the power and/or tracking ability it would take to injur a pilot's eye in a flying jet.
    chuck
    Chuck
    秋音的爸爸

    Comment

    • Helevitia
      Super MURCer
      • Aug 1999
      • 6628

      #3
      That was my thought too Chuck. Weird indeed.
      Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice.

      Comment

      • Dr Mordrid
        Moderator
        • Apr 2001
        • 26592

        #4
        There are industrial lasers strong enough to cut steel plate, but they are certainly not cheap.

        Also: it's not uncommon for surplus medical lasers to be availalble on the surplus market.

        Building lasers is not that difficult guys...even powerful ones.

        I once built a rather powerful CO2 laser in my basement shop as a project and you can get parts for them and optically pumped solid state lasers powerful enough to burn through metal in catalogs.

        Dr. Mordrid
        Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 29 September 2004, 12:01.
        Dr. Mordrid
        ----------------------------
        An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

        I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

        Comment

        • rylan
          Super MURCer
          • Sep 1999
          • 2347

          #5
          Yeah but the problem is you need to power the suckers. CO2 lasers use a lot of power unless you do a short burst, and they are invisible. It sounds like the pilots in this case noticed one of your Red laser normal "laser pointers" or something of the sort that you can plug into an AC outlet.

          Comment

          • cjolley
            Super MURCer
            • Aug 1999
            • 7672

            #6
            Also, even a metal cutting laser would have trouble doing damage to anything from several miles away for the milliseconds it would be aligned with something as small as an eyeball moving at a couple of hundred MPH.
            At least I would think.
            Doc how many eyeball radii / sec would 200mph be?
            (I'm realy asking. I have no idea.)
            Chuck
            Chuck
            秋音的爸爸

            Comment

            • Brian R.
              Super MURCer
              • Aug 1999
              • 3874

              #7
              Maybe it was just an out-of-control CD player in a boombox

              Comment

              • Wombat
                Super MURCer
                • Aug 2000
                • 9498

                #8
                Originally posted by cjolley
                Strange.
                I could be wrong, but it strikes me that only a military laser would have the power and/or tracking ability it would take to injur a pilot's eye in a flying jet.
                chuck
                This story is on slashdot, and it's been pointed out that you can get Class II and IIIa lasers even from ThinkGeek.

                Also, one guy said that a few years ago as a <I>passenger</I> he was hit by a laser light show as the plane passed over Seattle. Much pain and temporary eyesight damage.
                Gigabyte P35-DS3L with a Q6600, 2GB Kingston HyperX (after *3* bad pairs of Crucial Ballistix 1066), Galaxy 8800GT 512MB, SB X-Fi, some drives, and a Dell 2005fpw. Running WinXP.

                Comment

                • gt40
                  This space for rent
                  • Sep 1999
                  • 3973

                  #9
                  Originally posted by cjolley
                  Also, even a metal cutting laser would have trouble doing damage to anything from several miles away for the milliseconds it would be aligned with something as small as an eyeball moving at a couple of hundred MPH.
                  At least I would think.
                  Doc how many eyeball radii / sec would 200mph be?
                  (I'm realy asking. I have no idea.)
                  Chuck
                  True, because an industrial laser is focused down from a typical beam diameter of about 1.5" down to aprox .01", so if you are not at or near the focal point (say within 15 ft), id would be fairly harmless.However I do know of a person that has had a quarter size hole punched thru their arm by accidentally wandering through the beam of a 5-axis laser in operation.
                  Yeah, well I'm gonna build my own lunar space lander! With blackjack aaaaannd Hookers! Actually, forget the space lander, and the blackjack. Ahhhh forget the whole thing!

                  Comment

                  • schmosef
                    Super MURCer
                    • Dec 2002
                    • 5813

                    #10
                    When I first read the article I took for granted that such a laser could be optained. Reading the rest of the thread confirmed that. What surprises me is the tracking ability. How do you aim a laser at the eye of a pilot in a moving cockpit? Seems very hard for this technique to be used in an intentional attack.

                    edit: spelling
                    Last edited by schmosef; 29 September 2004, 19:44.
                    P.S. You've been Spanked!

                    Comment

                    • Jon P. Inghram
                      Super MURCer
                      • Oct 1999
                      • 3878

                      #11
                      If I lived in a post-apocalyptic world where high powered lasers were common and vicious bandits used aircraft to attack my village often enough to warrant some form of defense (trying to come up with a legtimate reason besides the likely real one: being a worthless pile of $#%@ that needs be lowered into a meat grinder slowly, balls first... hope they catch the pricks) I'd mount the laser on a low/moderate magnification telescope or binocular which is on a good quality tripod. If you had lots of resouces I'd think it wouldn't be too difficult to use a video camera, a PC with video capture hardware, and some servos to make it track automaticly. Also, the report said the plane was close to landing, so it's likely they were in a published flight pattern which would allow the ones with the laser to have set up at a location where they'd know planes were flying in a straight line towards them which would make aiming quite a bit easer.

                      Comment

                      • Mehen
                        Super Hamburglar
                        • May 2002
                        • 3395

                        #12
                        well those MX1000 lasers are supposed to be pretty powerful... maybe it...
                        Q9450 + TRUE, G.Skill 2x2GB DDR2, GTX 560, ASUS X48, 1TB WD Black, Windows 7 64-bit, LG M2762D-PM 27" + 17" LG 1752TX, Corsair HX620, Antec P182, Logitech G5 (Blue)
                        Laptop: MSI Wind - Black

                        Comment

                        • Dr Mordrid
                          Moderator
                          • Apr 2001
                          • 26592

                          #13
                          Just to give you guys an idea of whats possible, the typical laser pointer has a power output of 1-5 milliwatts.

                          You can get a 20 WATT (20,000 mw) CO2 laser tube or a 2 WATT (2,000 mw) laser diode for about $400 USD online. Also available at about the same price are are Nd:Glass pulsed laser crystals, complete with integrated mirrors, that can deliver up to 500 Joules/pulse. Just add the flash tube(s) and a power system.

                          Any of these can be powered by batteries (perhaps with an inverter, but still) and would be classified as a Class IV, which makes them very dangerous even when unfocussed. Class IV lasers can cause retinal damage miles away without even breathing hard since the beam divergence is near zero. Class IIIb lasers are a bit cheaper but not much less dangerous, though their power is reduced vs. Class IV.

                          You can also purchase laser weapon kits, and they can be VERY impressive.

                          Dr. Mordrid
                          Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 1 October 2004, 05:31.
                          Dr. Mordrid
                          ----------------------------
                          An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                          I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

                          Comment

                          • Marshmallowman
                            Super MURCer
                            • Sep 1999
                            • 3416

                            #14
                            Yeah the danger of lasers themselves can be pretty nasty. I just hope it wasn't a targeting spot used for weapons guidance.

                            Ah well genies and bottles....

                            Comment

                            • Paddy
                              Super MURCer
                              • Mar 2000
                              • 6067

                              #15
                              so... where did it come from?

                              What angle would it have to be to hit the guy's eye?

                              I can't believe someone could manually track such a fast moving object..
                              The Welsh support two teams when it comes to rugby. Wales of course, and anyone else playing England

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