Saudi Arabia - Denmark, a love story?

[TransformX]

Bnei Sakhnin soccer fans plan to burn Danish flag during match

Fans of the Israeli Arab Bnei Sakhnin soccer team plan to add their voice this weekend to protests that have swept across the Muslim world over the publication of cartoons of the prophet Mohammed by a Danish newspaper. Supporters of the club plan to burn a giant Danish flag when the team hosts Upper Nazareth at Doha Stadium Friday.

In response to the fans plans, the Galilee Regional Police said on Monday that they will not allow fans of the B'nei Sakhnin soccer team burn Danish flags during the match. The police added that they will not allow Danish flags to be burned within the stadium or in its surrounding area.

Police are also threatening to prevent fans from entering the stadium for Friday's match because the team's management has yet to make security improvements required of them, after rioting broke out in a match between Sakhnin and Beitar Jerusalem.

"As soon as I heard about the cartoons of the prophet, I raised the idea with a few friends of burning the Danish flag in protest at the offensive gesture against Muslim feelings," Sakhnin supporter Yussef Azazme said. "Some of them agreed with the idea and some didn't. Those that didn't agree said that act could arouse hostility between Muslim and Christian fans, while others were afraid they would be arrested by police. But in the end I decided to go ahead."

To understand Azazme's comments about possible tensions between Muslims and Christians, one has to remember that ten percent of the Galilee town's residents are Christian, and with Denmark's flag sporting the cross, its burning might not go down well.

"We respect our Christian brothers with whom we live in full coexistence in soccer and in all walks of life, and nobody would dare hurt their feelings," Azazme said. "The act is aimed specifically at the Danes for insulting the honor of the Muslim religion."

Azazme said he has tried to talk with club officials to try and receive their blessing for the move, but as yet has not received a response. "While I understand that fans have been offended by the cartoons, I would prefer that religious and political disputes be kept out of soccer," the chairman of the club's board, Ahmed Amar, said yesterday.

In any event, Azazme is fully aware that burning the flag at a soccer match will get far more attention than doing so on the town's streets. "Soccer has become a media stage, and anything that takes place during a match quickly comes to the attention of the media. We could do it on the streets, but then no one will talk about it."

Azazme has already collected over NIS 1,000 for the project, and has spent the money on a canvas that he plans to have made into a 30-by-3-meter Danish flag that will go up in smoke.

[schmosef]

Iran renames Danish pastries after prophet

TEHRAN, Iran - Not content with pelting European embassies with Molotov cocktails to protest against cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, Iranians have decided to rename the “Danish pastries” relished by this nation of cake lovers.

From now on, the sweet, flaky pastries which dominate the shelves in Iran’s cake shops will be known as “Roses of the Prophet Muhammad,” the official IRNA news agency reported as pressure on Denmark over the cartoons took on a new dimension.

“No one is allowed to make fun of our beloved and respected prophet,” Hassan Nasserzadeh, a cake shop owner in central Tehran, told Reuters.

The pastries are baked every day and are not imported or subject to any boycott of Danish goods imposed over the cartoons.

The Iranian move had echoes of the verbal food fight set off by restaurants in the U.S. House of Representatives, which renamed “French fries” and “French toast” served at the Capitol as “Freedom fries” and “Freedom toast” after France refused to back the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

[Tjalfe]

in Denmark they are known as "bread from Vianna" anyways

[schmosef]

in Denmark they are known as "bread from Vianna" anyways

Yeah, we'd discussed that.

I'd meant to include a comment about the irony of it all but I forgot.

Anyway, we all get it!

[schmosef]

An interesting development...

Don't Burn Muhammad

In 711 Muslim armies crossed the Strait of Gibraltar. They took Spain by force and remained there until they were thrown out during the reconquista in 1492. Every year, in a tradition that goes back to the 16th century, Spanish villages still celebrate the liberation from the Moors (as the Muslims were locally called) during “Moros y Cristianos” festivals in which effigies of the prophet Muhammad – the so-called “la Mahoma” – are mocked, thrown out of windows, and burned.

Now the Spanish, having witnessed what happened to the Vikings recently, are wondering whether they can still continue their tradition of “offending Muslims.” The village of Bocairent near Valencia decided this year to discontinue the century old tradition of mocking and burning effigies of Muhammad. Bocairent does not want to risk becoming the target of suicide bombers.

In Belgium, as we reported last week, the organizers of the traditional carnival (mardi gras) parade of Aalst hope that the participants in this year’s parade will be sensible enough not to offend Muslims by dressing up in burqas or posing as Muhammad. But not only the Belgian authorities are worried. The neighbouring Netherlands have a tradition of dressing up at carnival as well.

The authorities in Oldenzaal have decided that mocking Muhammad will not be tolerated. “We will be very strict,” they told the media. Similar prohibitions have also been imposed in the province of Limburg, where carnival (this year from 26 to 28 February) is a very old tradition. Participants can mock whomever they want, except Muslims. “Making allusions to the cartoon crisis will not be tolerated either,” the organizing committee of a carnival parade in Brabant said.

Some Dutch, however, are made of sterner stuff. Last Friday, at the conclusion of a debate on Dutch television about the Muhammad cartoons, an animated cartoon was shown. It was made by Joep Bertrams, who won an award last year for being the best Dutch political cartoonist of 2005. See it here. The title “Gevoelig” means “Sensitive.”

[KvHagedorn]

If the people who make the laws are such nutless wonders, it's time for revolution.. and it would be pretty easy to overthrow the crying sissybabies. I'm sure that's what the muslims think now, as well.

A typical eurosissybaby comfortable in his utopia of ultra-civilization..



Now what happened next? Hmm?

[schmosef]

Hey, maybe Othello is going to be banned next?

[schmosef]

Worldwide the death toll for riots over these cartoons has reached 45 people...

What a waste.

(source: Pakistani Forces Seek to Quell Protests)

Demonstrations have turned increasingly violent and claimed at least 45 lives worldwide, including 11 in Afghanistan during a three-day span two weeks ago and 10 on Friday in the Libyan coastal city of Benghazi. The Libyan riot outside the Italian consulate apparently was sparked by a right-wing Italian Cabinet minister who wore a T-shirt with a caricature of Muhammad.

[Jammrock]

Worldwide the death toll for riots over these cartoons has reached 45 people...

Looks like we have a winner for this year's Darwin awards...

[Jammrock ducks for cover...]

[Umfriend]

Great editorial from the art director of Jyllands-Posten.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/17/AR2006021702499_2.html

I have tried to follow the debate within the Netherlands and I think in general the attitude of the MSM (MainStreamMuslum) part has been similar.

Since the Sept. 30 publication of the cartoons, we have had a constructive debate in Denmark and Europe about freedom of expression, freedom of religion and respect for immigrants and people's beliefs. Never before have so many Danish Muslims participated in a public dialogue -- in town hall meetings, letters to editors, opinion columns and debates on radio and TV. We have had no anti-Muslim riots, no Muslims fleeing the country and no Muslims committing violence. The radical imams who misinformed their counterparts in the Middle East about the situation for Muslims in Denmark have been marginalized. They no longer speak for the Muslim community in Denmark because moderate Muslims have had the courage to speak out against them.

In January, Jyllands-Posten ran three full pages of interviews and photos of moderate Muslims saying no to being represented by the imams. They insist that their faith is compatible with a modern secular democracy. A network of moderate Muslims committed to the constitution has been established, and the anti-immigration People's Party called on its members to differentiate between radical and moderate Muslims, i.e. between Muslims propagating sharia law and Muslims accepting the rule of secular law. The Muslim face of Denmark has changed, and it is becoming clear that this is not a debate between "them" and "us," but between those committed to democracy in Denmark and those who are not.

[schmosef]

There's a website called Zombietime.com.

It's owned by a guy who goes to rallies and demonstrations and photographs the inherent hypocrisy of left wing movements.

He keeps a collection of images of Mo here: Mohammed Image Archive
And an archive of the email that he gets regarding it here: http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/mail/

His image archive is really enlightening because I hadn't realised just how common images of Mo are.

From his archive I learned about a great web comic called Mohammed's Believe It or Else!

[schmosef]

In other places in the world, in lebanon for example; a person's freedom stops where someone else's religion starts! That is, you can't insult or offend any religion, ANY religion. I suppose it could have something to do with the fact that there are a score different religions and sects. Even "the resistance" will never say 'Jewish' state. It's all about the Zionists. Ironicly, islamists like Hzballa won't attack Judaism as a "religion" because it's expressly forbidden in the Koran.

I came across this article and wanted to share it because it directly contrasts llc's depiction of religious pluralism in Lebanon:

Because They Hate

We gather here today to share information and knowledge. Intelligence is not merely cold hard data about numerical strength or armament or disposition of military forces. The most important element of intelligence has to be understanding the mindset and intention of the enemy. The West has been wallowing in a state of ignorance and denial for thirty years as Muslim extremist perpetrated evil against innocent victims in the name of Allah.

I was ten years old when my home exploded around me, burying me under the rubble and leaving me to drink my blood to survive, as the perpetrators shouted “Allah Akbar!” My only crime was that I was a Christian living in a Christian town. At 10 years old, I learned the meaning of the word "infidel."

I had a crash course in survival. Not in the Girl Scouts, but in a bomb shelter where I lived for seven years in pitch darkness, freezing cold, drinking stale water and eating grass to live. At the age of 13 I dressed in my burial clothes going to bed at night, waiting to be slaughtered. By the age of 20, I had buried most of my friends--killed by Muslims. We were not Americans living in New York, or Britons in London. We were Arab Christians living in Lebanon.

As a victim of Islamic terror, I was amazed when I saw Americans waking up on September 12, 2001, and asking themselves "Why do they hate us?" The psychoanalyst experts were coming up with all sort of excuses as to what did we do to offend the Muslim World. But if America and the West were paying attention to the Middle East they would not have had to ask the question. Simply put, they hate us because we are defined in their eyes by one simple word: "infidels."

Under the banner of Islam "la, ilaha illa allah, muhammad rasoulu allah," (None is god except Allah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah) they murdered Jewish children in Israel, massacred Christians in Lebanon, killed Copts in Egypt, Assyrians in Syria, Hindus in India, and expelled almost 900,000 Jews from Muslim lands. We Middle Eastern infidels paid the price then. Now infidels worldwide are paying the price for indifference and shortsightedness.

Tolerating evil is a crime. Appeasing murderers doesn't buy protection. It earns one disrespect and loathing in the enemy's eyes. Yet apathy is the weapon by which the West is committing suicide. Political correctness forms the shackles around our ankles, by which Islamists are leading us to our demise.

America and the West are doomed to failure in this war unless they stand up and identify the real enemy: Islam. You hear about Wahabbi and Salafi Islam as the only extreme form of Islam. All the other Muslims, supposedly, are wonderful moderates. Closer to the truth are the pictures of the irrational eruption of violence in reaction to the cartoons of Mohammed printed by a Danish newspaper. From burning embassies, to calls to butcher those who mock Islam, to warnings that the West be prepared for another holocaust, those pictures have given us a glimpse into the real face of the enemy. News pictures and video of these events represent a canvas of hate decorated by different nationalities who share one common ideology of hate, bigotry and intolerance derived from one source: authentic Islam. An Islam that is awakening from centuries of slumber to re-ignite its wrath against the infidel and dominate the world. An Islam which has declared "Intifada" on the West.

America and the West can no longer afford to lay in their lazy state of overweight ignorance. The consequences of this mental disease are starting to attack the body, and if they don't take the necessary steps now to control it, death will be knocking soon. If you want to understand the nature of the enemy we face, visualize a tapestry of snakes. They slither and they hiss, and they would eat each other alive, but they will unite in a hideous mass to achieve their common goal of imposing Islam on the world.

This is the ugly face of the enemy we are fighting. We are fighting a powerful ideology that is capable of altering basic human instincts. An ideology that can turn a mother into a launching pad of death. A perfect example is a recently elected Hamas official in the Palestinian Territories who raves in heavenly joy about sending her three sons to death and offering the ones who are still alive for the cause. It is an ideology that is capable of offering highly educated individuals such as doctors and lawyers far more joy in attaining death than any respect and stature, life in society is ever capable of giving them.

The United States has been a prime target for radical Islamic hatred and terror. Every Friday, mosques in the Middle East ring with shrill prayers and monotonous chants calling death, destruction and damnation down on America and its people. The radical Islamists’ deeds have been as vile as their words. Since the Iran hostage crisis, more than three thousand Americans have died in a terror campaign almost unprecedented in its calculated cruelty along with thousands of other citizens worldwide. Even the Nazis did not turn their own children into human bombs, and then rejoice at their deaths as well the deaths of their victims. This intentional, indiscriminate and wholesale murder of innocent American citizens is justified and glorified in the name of Islam.

America cannot effectively defend itself in this war unless and until the American people understand the nature of the enemy that we face. Even after 9/11 there are those who say that we must “engage” our terrorist enemies, that we must “address their grievances”. Their grievance is our freedom of religion. Their grievance is our freedom of speech. Their grievance is our democratic process where the rule of law comes from the voices of many not that of just one prophet. It is the respect we instill in our children towards all religions. It is the equality we grant each other as human beings sharing a planet and striving to make the world a better place for all humanity. Their grievance is the kindness and respect a man shows a woman, the justice we practice as equals under the law, and the mercy we grant our enemy. Their grievance cannot be answered by an apology for who or what we are.

Our mediocre attitude of not confronting Islamic forces of bigotry and hatred wherever they raised their ugly head in the last 30 years, has empowered and strengthened our enemy to launch a full scale attack on the very freedoms we cherish in their effort to impose their values and way of life on our civilization.

If we don't wake up and challenge our Muslim community to take action against the terrorists within it, if we don't believe in ourselves as Americans and in the standards we should hold every patriotic American to, we are going to pay a price for our delusion. For the sake of our children and our country, we must wake up and take action. In the face of a torrent of hateful invective and terrorist murder, America’s learning curve since the Iran hostage crisis is so shallow that it is almost flat. The longer we lay supine, the more difficult it will be to stand erect.

[Dr Mordrid]

The unfortunate thing is that the "moderate" Muslim community is hiding under their stairs in fear that if they open their mouths they'll be next on the hit list.

At this point free speech be damned: if local Mullahs etc. call for jihiad on the nation that has welcomed them as refugees then they should be put on the next plane home, along with their followers.

Politicians and lawyers that seek to "protect their rights" and let them stay should be put in the seat next to 'em.

Dr. Mordrid

[ZokesPro]

Simply put, they hate us because we are defined in their eyes by one simple word: "infidels."

Definitions of infidel on the Web: (google)
-A person who does not believe in any particular religious system.
-A person who does not believe in your particular religion, denomination or religious tradition.
-Someone with a different faith or no faith.

So everyone except Muslims are infidels? And they hate us because we either don't beleive in their religion or acknowledge it or simply because we chose to follow a different religion?

[schmosef]

Definitions of infidel on the Web: (google)
-A person who does not believe in any particular religious system.
-A person who does not believe in your particular religion, denomination or religious tradition.
-Someone with a different faith or no faith.

So everyone except Muslims are infidels? And they hate us because we either don't beleive in their religion or acknowledge it or simply because we chose to follow a different religion?

The full answer to your questions is actually quite complex (because one would have to compare and contrast the opinions of the different "schools" of Islam), but in a nutshell, the answer is yes for all three questions.

The long way to answer your questions cuts directly to the heart of the debate on whether there really exists such a thing as "moderate Islam" or if "moderate Muslims" are simply those who are able to ignore those aspect of their religion that stand opposed to Western values, technically making them apostates--not true Muslims.

There's a story in Islamic theology that says that Mo's advice on how to deal with infidels was to let them choose among three options:

1) offer to let them convert to Islam (if they do then accept them)
2) if they are "people of the book" (ie., Jews or Christians) offer to let them pay the jizya tax and live under "protected" dhimmi status. (a good explanation of what that means: http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/why-dhimmi.htm)
3) call for Allah's help to wage Jihad against them.