Why there are helmet laws....

[Gurm]

Helmet laws aren't all about you. Unless you absolve everyone else of any blame for things that happen to you because you're not wearing a helmet, even if it's their fault. Even then, you can't take away the emotional trauma.

Then let's just legislate EVERYTHING.

The guy at the liquor store might feel guilty because I choose to drink the entirety of that handle of Jim Beam he sold me, and while I'm drunk I get in my car and kill someone. So let's bring back prohibition, or else install drinking-chastity-belt devices on everyone so that you can't drink too much.

I might jump from an airplane. That's riskier than motorcycling without a helmet, and I could very well die. Lots of different people might feel bad if I did, so let's ban parachuting.

Come ON. Where will it end? Legislating protective measures to keep us from hurting ourselves is a DAMNABLE practice, the very steep beginning of a very slippery slope that ends in everyone living in padded rooms and never ever going outside because we might catch cold.

[Dr Mordrid]

I'm as much against the nanny state as you, but having seen more tragedies over the years than anyone should I'm strongly in favor of helmet/seat belt laws.

Point of fact a seatbelt saved my life when my car was hit sideways in the left/front by a van do ~50 mph. My door was sprung open by the impact, causing me to hang out due to the car spinning 3 full rotations. If not for the belt I'd have been thrown on the street and run over by my own car.

This happened before any of the kids were born, so if not for the belt....

Dr. Mordrid

[Gurm]

I'm as much against the nanny state as you, but having seen more tragedies over the years than anyone should I'm strongly in favor of helmet/seat belt laws.

Point of fact a seatbelt saved my life when my car was hit sideways in the left/front by a van do ~50 mph. My door was sprung open by the impact, causing me to hang out due to the car spinning. If not for the belt I'd have been thrown on the street and run over by my own car.

This happened before any of the kids were born, so if not for the belt....

Dr. Mordrid

I don't deny it, and like I said - I, too, wear them.

But EVERY drunk driving death in the country last year could have been prevented if we had just brought back prohibition!

We could stop the tragic scourge of lung cancer cold if we just made it a criminal offense to smoke!

By banning fast food, we could prevent thousands of coronaries!

The helmet is a good idea. A great idea, even.

But then it gets stupid. Nowadays, in some communities, you can get fined if your kids ride their bikes without helmets. Funny that EVERY KID IN MY SCHOOL rode their bike EVERY DAY for 10 years and nobody died because none of us wore helmets.

So the slippery slope has already begun. You can't ride a push-scooter, a pedal-bike, a skateboard, or anything else nowadays without wearing restrictive, ridiculous protective gear... and in many places it's legislated. And what paved the way for that? The helmet and seatbelt laws!

We already live in the nanny state, but so far she's been a permissive nanny. Now she's threatening to become the kind of nanny that smacks your hand away when you try to eat a cookie.

[Dr Mordrid]

The kids in your school is too small a subset to be useful in assessing the risk.

EVERY YEAR ~140,000 - 150,000 kids sustain head injuries in bike accidents. These make up 25% of all bike related injuries. Hundreds of them die.

At least half of these head injuries could be prevented by using a helmet. And since recent studies show even "minor" head injuries can cause learning deficits....

Dr. Mordrid

[TnT]

Helmet laws aren't all about you. Unless you absolve everyone else of any blame for things that happen to you because you're not wearing a helmet, even if it's their fault. Even then, you can't take away the emotional trauma.

Also if someone walks away from an accident with minor injuries because they were wearing a helmet vs huge medical costs to fix them up because they weren't. There are more people and costs involved with people being stupid then their own lives. Rarely do personal decisions affect only a single individual.

BTW, the football website I like to go to has been calling him Ben Toothlessberger... lol.

[Gurm]

The kids in your school is too small a subset to be useful in assessing the risk.

EVERY YEAR ~140,000 - 150,000 kids sustain head injuries in bike accidents. These make up 25% of all bike related injuries. Hundreds of them die.

At least half of these head injuries could be prevented by using a helmet. And since recent studies show even "minor" head injuries can cause learning deficits....

Dr. Mordrid

Yes, we all agree. But you know what? More and more we limit the freedoms of childhood, the risks of life, and the joy of living. Soon we will live in a humdrum world where nothing can hurt us, nobody is ever sad, and life isn't worth living.

And you still haven't varied from the points we agree on - wearing a helmet is a GOOD idea yes, but leads to other curtailed freedoms VERY quickly.

[Gurm]

Also if someone walks away from an accident with minor injuries because they were wearing a helmet vs huge medical costs to fix them up because they weren't. There are more people and costs involved with people being stupid then their own lives. Rarely do personal decisions affect only a single individual.

Blah blah medical costs blah.

Like we said - don't wear a helmet? No insurance. Pretty simple, really.

Freedom is a great thing. When paired with capitalism, it tends to work itself out.

[The PIT]

Well if you don't wear a helmit perhaps the Doctors should be allowed to excerise there own free will and decide not too waste their time on someone who doesn'[t give a toss about their own safety.

[cjolley]

Like we said - don't wear a helmet? No insurance. Pretty simple, really.

What does his insurance have to do with it?
Is the non helmet wearing, irresponsible, now permanently drooling, father of three's family not going to be able to bankrupt me because he was disabled in an otherwise minor accident?
I have insurance, but not enough to cover that.

[Jessterw]

I'm torn. While I'd be more apt to agree with Gurm on this one, the helmet/seatbelt laws taken as non-trend setting are good things. Sometimes people do need to be protected from their own stupidity or carelessness.

There's the added 'benefit' that someone is always going to ignore the laws and get seriously f* up like this fellow. Helps add to the "this is your brain on the pavement" message. Of course, KvH is right. Most people keep on with the "it could never happen to me" or "just this once/this far" thoughts. All it takes there is for someone close to them to learn that's just not true.

[Dr Mordrid]

Let's touch on the financial costs of a serious motorcycle accident and the governments responsibility.

For starters 6 months to a year of emergency care, surgeries, ICU and nursing care easily runs $2-$3 million USD or more. Since hardly anyones insurance covers this much the feds often pay the excess by way of Medicare or Medicaid. This doesn't even touch rehab, prosthetics etc. Next comes the benefits paid to the injured & family by Social Security Disability.

Who do you think pays all of this? Yup...John Q. Taxpayer

The government, by way of the peoples representatives, has a feduciary duty to mitigate this loss by way of...TA'DA'....safety regulations. These are applied to those who use the public infrastructure involved; the roads, just as you set rules for behavior within your home.

On the other hand; if you choose to ride without a helmet on private property then have at it....even if your brains do get spattered all over a chunk of granite.

These rules cover far more than belts and helmets. One mandates collapsing steering columns. Speaking as one who has worked on the poor souls impaled on a steering column this is a great safety regulation. So is the one mandating the deflection plate that stops an engine from landing in your lap, shattering bones and burning away soft tissues.

Dr. Mordrid

[Sasq]

Doc just said what was on my mind regarding the financials.

Now, all of you the have gone on about freedoms. quick news flash, a licence is a privilage not a g*d given right so sorry this whole personal freedom thing doesn't come into it.
if one of the conditions of being allowed to keep your licence is to buckle up, or strap a helmet on, tough titties, do it or loose it.

[Dr Mordrid]

Exactly. Just as you have to follow 'the rules' in sport getting that permit binds you to the rules set by the issuer.

Dr. Mordrid

[Gurm]

Ok, how about municipalities that now legally mandate helmets while riding bicycles? Last time I checked, no permit was necessary and it was not a "privilege" to ride a bicycle down the street, and yet kids are getting ticketed for not wearing ginormous and highly unnecessary protective head-balloons.

Where does it end? That's my question. Everything you say is COMPLETELY REASONABLE, and THAT'S THE PROBLEM! It's COMPLETELY REASONABLE to wear a seatbelt while driving. It's COMPLETELY REASONABLE to wear a helmet while riding your motorcycle at 65mph on the highway.

It's also COMPLETELY REASONABLE to think that no private citizen needs a semi-automatic weapon. After all, they really DON'T, when you think about it. But that's a gigantic slippery slope, just like this is.

And don't start with the private versus public property argument. The government has already demonstrated, on numerous occasions, that it is more than willing to ignore that distinction at will. Last time I checked, it was LEGAL to serve alcohol to your kids on your own property. But parents are getting arrested for it right and left nowadays.

I understand the financial cost. I understand the intelligence of wearing the safety equipment. And I still can't morally condone the precedent it sets.

[Sasq]

bullsh*t kids need helmets.

unless of course your happy with your child falling of his bike and spending the rest of his days drooling?