Michigan: silencers, suppressors and machine guns OK

[Evildead666]

Nearly everyone here goes hunting with loud shotguns.
Helps those walking in the woods, and other areas, to know there are people shooting in proximity.
All firearms require permits.

Silencers are fully illegal (for civilians) afaik.

On the other hand, air pistols (maybe rifles) can be bought over the net by credit card, including silencers.

Also, Norway isn't part of Europe apparently (didn't know that).

http://www.touteleurope.eu/fr/organisation/etats-membres/les-etats-membres-en-quelques-mots/presentation/liste-des-etats-membres-de-l-ue.html

[Dr Mordrid]

Crazy, crazy, crazy!

In any case, a silencer becomes about 10-15% less effective with each shot, so it's an expensive hobby to keep up.

In the old-old days when silencers used mineral fiber packs or fine steel wool packs to muffle the sound, perhaps but these were often replaceable. Modern silencers are made using internal metal baffles, similar to a car muffler, and last thousands of rounds. Any clogging of the vent holes are taken care of simply by disassembling and cleaning with standard gun cleaning solvents.

AFAIK, no European state would allow carrying a sidearm with silencer and most do not allow carrying a sidearm at all.....The only firearms permitted here with licences are air rifles (no pistols) up to 0.177 calibre and single- or double-barrelled 12 bore shotguns.

Wasn't talking European sidearms but varmint and hunting rifles, but there are silencers for shotguns too so.....

Also; even air/CO2 rifles are required to have silencers in some countries.

[Brian Ellis]

Crazy, crazy, crazy!

In any case, a silencer becomes about 10-15% less effective with each shot, so it's an expensive hobby to keep up.

AFAIK, no European state would allow carrying a sidearm with silencer and most do not allow carrying a sidearm at all, concealed or open (police excepted in some cases, but not all). In this EU country - and it is not alone - even possession of a sidearm is illegal and no licences are issued for civilian exceptions. The only firearms permitted here with licences are air rifles (no pistols) up to 0.177 calibre and single- or double-barrelled 12 bore shotguns.

[Dr Mordrid]

Actual examples?

Discuss it with jms as he probably knows the details better than I do, but several European friends of mine were quite surprised to discover the status of silencers/suppressors here.

"Rogue" elected government? Does that even mean anything?

.
See Adolph Hitler - elected in a democratic process and we know what happened after that. Are you so politically naive to assume that isn't possible here? Try looking up the security and Continuity of Government functions of FEMA and the related standing Executive Orders. Now imagine if the wrong person(s) got hold of that apparatus. No, FEMA isn't just disaster relief. That's just part of their functions as part of the Department of Homeland Security.

Or are you suborning treason against the US?

Right out of Saul Alinsky's Rules For Radicals**, the current Democrat playbook: if you can't win on the facts demean & ridicule your opponent. Grow up.

PS It's time to stop the dog whistles and speak the truth.

Just did.

**1971 Random House, ISBN 0-394-44341-1

[jms]

Suppressors for use with varmint and other hunting rifles are somewhat common in Europe, and in some counties required to reduce noise pollution and protect the hearing of shooters and others, so why not here?

True, very common here.

[Umfriend]

No way what? Being succesfull? Who cares?

[cjolley]

Suppressors for use with varmint and other hunting rifles are somewhat common in Europe

Actual examples?

Your assumption that all forces would act monolithically in the face of a rogue government flies in the face of recent world history.

FDS: Firearm derangement syndrome.
Of course they would. "Rogue" elected government? Does that even mean anything?
Or are you suborning treason against the US?

PS It's time to stop the dog whistles and speak the truth.

[Evildead666]

...
Your assumption that all forces would act monolithically in the face of a rogue government flies in the face of recent world history.

Most of the German Officers and Soldiers during the Holocaust were 'just following orders'.

Who's to say the U.S.A. is any different ?

[Evildead666]

source :http://skiptucker.blogspot.com/2010/...hey-meant.html

[Dr Mordrid]

Allowing hunting with silencers is crazy, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Suppressors for use with varmint and other hunting rifles are somewhat common in Europe, and in some counties required to reduce noise pollution and protect the hearing of shooters and others, so why not here?

I can see using them when culling feral hogs etc. which now have a shoot-on-sight status in Michigan so you might have to kill a whole group. Often these are rather close to populated areas. This use for nuisance critters has been specifically passed and signed in Louisiana and is in the legislative process elsewhere.

Link....

Also; Michigan is just catching up. Silencers are already legal in Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina , South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

And I'm not sure I understand the point of those old quotes.

The world has left that reality behind. The army of the federal government would mow down a rebel army like blades of grass no matter what the rebels were armed with.
>

Your assumption that all forces would act monolithically in the face of a rogue government flies in the face of recent world history.

[cjolley]

True for a battle field. Less so with insurgency tactics.

They would have the support of about 15% of the population. If that.
No way.

[Umfriend]

True for a battle field. Less so with insurgency tactics.

[cjolley]

Allowing hunting with silencers is crazy, no ifs, ands, or buts.

And I'm not sure I understand the point of those old quotes.
The world has left that reality behind. The army of the federal government would mow down a rebel army like blades of grass no matter what the rebels were armed with.
That's just the way it is.

[Dr Mordrid]

Silencers: for most that get them not everyone lives near a gun range, so if you are practicing on private property it helps keep the noise complaints down. Other people use them while hunting - some landowners decline hunter access solely based on the noise of gunfire.

Full autos: you say 'why?' while some shooters would say 'why not?' Other than just pure entertainment value (they are a scream to shoot) those interested in survival preparation would want to maximize their defensive capabilities. Since the Heller and McDonald decisions both recognized the reasons given by the Framers I'll let them speak for themselves, plus one more that may surprise some -

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
-- Mahatma Gandhi

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
-- George Washington

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
-- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

[cjolley]

Except for hobbyists, who just like to own unusual items, why would anyone spend the money on a silencer?
Or a machine gun?
Of what practical civilian use are either of them?