Linux Easy Nope

[The PIT]

For some reason probably urked by posts from people who don't know better I decided to have a brief laugh updating Suse 10.1 a little bit.

I pondered about using Kcontruct to download a later version of KDE but then decided to look at yast and see what that had to say on the matter. Yup a later version there. 800+ meg. That should keep my broadband busy for a bit and have UKonline, my ISP looking at their undefined fup policy.

Not a bit of it fast connection over in a few minutes. Now that was easy. Of course it may not have done anything cos I haven't checked the build number but I believe it's done the update.

Next firefox now last time I did that that was easy. Download the latest version looked for the install script. There was only one that looked like the villian and it was excutable. Opened a terminal window su etc nope it wouldn't run. Okay the readme said go to mozilla for instructions. Problem is that there isn't any. Fantastic.

Okay method two find the rpm. Did that and up pops "you need firefox 1.5.0.10" for this too install. It's installed you stupid bugger.

A bit more messing around and a few more missing dependances popped up. Okay method 3. Lets add a new repositry in Yast. Easier said than done since it isn't clear what syntax you need and won't let you look at a previous one you put in some time back. It's also dam slow in processing the request for some reason.

That worked and I also installed thunderbird while I was at it.

Next I decided to update Openoffice. Searched for the command to remove the damn program but couldn't find it on Google. Why did I look for it. Well becuase using the supplied uninstaller from Suse doesn't work. Anyway since I couldn't find it I gave it go. Open office removed. Okay.

Downloaded the software via Yast. Wouldn't install due a missing dependancy. Could I find it nope. Downloaded the whole lot from Openoffice org installed it and then went to install the menu link. This conflicts with Openoffice 2.04. Sure enough the software package had failed to uninstall Openoffice. Well I only need the menu link so I uninstalled Openoffice menu link. Good that gone. Installed the new version and bingo no menu link. Uninstalled it and tried again. Sorry it's already installed. Grrrrrrrrrrr. Time for a break.

Now this farce took all afternoon bar a brief break to have a chat with a friend. A least cups works on Suse.

Under Windows you know that spyware Virus ridden difficult to use XP it would have taken about ten minutes including download time.

Thats only the software side the hardware side if it doesn't work can take months to fix.

[TnT]

In gentoo I just type

emerge ***

and it handles all dependencies for me.

[The PIT]

Wll in theory Yast is supposed too.

Sometime I'll have to sort out this Openoffice mess. Or will I have more fun installing the latest KDE from Suse.

Got to admit the Linux Kiosks we did at work have never missed a beat. Sadly the main bloke behind them has left and the orginal author stopped supporting it years ago so we can't recreate them.

[spadnos]

Hmmm.

I'd say you're ripe for an Ubuntu install

Or any debian-based (or at least .deb-based) system. I'm not sure why Yast is being such an idiot here, but it sounds like you've installed / uninstalled packages using RPM, independent packaging, and possibly compilation. Mixing package management is a recipe for difficulty. The package manager won't see a dependency in its database, so it tries to install it. That package then sees that you have remnants of some install, and it doesn't know what to do about it. It was told, after all, that there was no previous version.

How old is this install anyway? I'm not too familiar with the Suse versions and their timeline.

Sorry I can't help with the YAST/RPM issues. This reminds me of the good old days of different programs clobbering bwcc.dll and bwcc32.dll and breaking something else (randomly).

- Steve

[The PIT]

Suse 10.1 which is one behind the latest.

Never quite got on with Unbuntu. Tends to struggle identiying what hardware it's running on.

I like Debian but they are slow at updating but the package management seems to work quite well. Makes me wonder why Unbuntu can be such an ass at times.

[IM_Riktar]

Have you tried PCLinuxOS? They are on the 3rd (Hopefully final) RC before 0.94 is out.

Frankly I find the test/release candidtates from Texstar (PcLinuxOs) more stable than other versions "final" releases.

0.94 TR3 is a live cd which can be installed from the desktop once booted up. The only "hoop" you need to jump through is to log in as root before clicking on the "Install" icon.

[The PIT]

Doesn't matter what distro you use they all have there own quirks.

Another good one at work with Suse 10.2. Yast cannot install this software missing dependacy. Anyway if you give up it or tell it to ignore this missing file and install anyway it takes you to software sources screen. Amongst the orginal installed sources is the file you've just tried installing. Now if click on this aborted install it will suddenly pop up a window and get the needed files. Not very user friendly or logical really.

Even better after running for an hour after this the machine suddenly locks up and loses it's desktop settings on reboot. It thinks it's running at 1024 x 768 full colour but it's running 800 x 600.

[IM_Riktar]

Doesn't matter what distro you use they all have there own quirks.

Well then, nothing lost on trying PcLinuxOs. It probably (Like all OS's) has quirks. I just haven't been able to find one yet.

C'mon, whats one more 700 meg download?

[The PIT]

C'mon, whats one more 700 meg download?

Vista ????

I swear Liinux is getting more like Windows everyday.

The fix for X Windows being in the wrong display res was to switch it to the resolution it was actually showing. Reboot. Switch it back to the correct res and reboot and bingo it's working correctly again.

Very windows like behavour. When is Microsoft Linux coming out?????

[Jessterw]

When is Microsoft Linux coming out?????

Not sure if you can find it on shelves yet, but it's called Xenix

But yes, Linux and 90% of the F/OSS applications out there are more like their Windows counterparts than most would care to admit. Just look at OpenOffice, which is the quirky cousin of MS Office 97 (well maybe 2000).

While the reasoning behind this similarity is sound - they want to attract Windows users and the basic UI and use schemes work well enough - I've always felt they needed to be innovating in every possible way. As it stands they're making the same mistakes MS made.

[TnT]

Yeah I think some of that is due to familiarity by many of the developers with Windows software -- I would guess that the majority of current F/OSS people grew up with Wintel machines at home.

There's also this copycat sense that people think they need to do to keep up with the Joneses. Instead of working on new ways to do things there's a tendency to copy. Which kind of negates one of the better aspects of open source because when someone "scratches and itch" they don't have to prove its ROI to executives and managers.

Instead of keeping up with Windows or Mac OS I want Linux to be better.

I believe that's why Mozilla & Firefox has done so well. Instead of trying to implement all the non-standard crap that IE does, they went and put in new features that have made browsing easier -- tabs, incremental searching, great extension architecture, ...

[Jessterw]

Pretty well sums it up.

[The PIT]

Pity Mozilla forgot the Linux install instructions.

To make Linux easier.

A unified cross platform installer.

A unified cross platform uninstaller.

An end of the various install methods with the OS itself.

An end to binary installs with badly written install instructions.

That would hide a lot of the issue's from the average user.

[Dr Mordrid]

I liked how the Amiga handled installs;

All system libraries (DLL's) to Libraries folder
All device drivers to a Drivers folder
All program files in that programs install folder, not scattered to the winds
NO REGISTRY; setups in each programs .ini file in its folder
etc.

[schmosef]

I'm installing Ubuntu 6.10 into a Virtual PC right now.

The install process is definitely slower than installing Vista Ultimate.