Canopus DV Raptor Testimonial

[Mark F]

Jerry Jones-
>The Matrox G200 supports overlay
>in the Canopus DV Raptor

Well OK if you say so,
but not acording to RAPTEST
the Canopus program that's suposed to test the system, and specificly the overly capability of the video card
My G200 failed , G400 works fine

Mark F.

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OH NO, my retractable cup holder swallowed a CD

[Grigory]

Hi,

My two cents:
I am using Raptor with G200 since May. Overlay is supported in all modes except 1280x1024@32bit or higher.
The codec is 3x realtime in making DV on Celeron 450. So, the editing performance is exactly the same as promised by Matrox.
Read Matrox explanations and substitute RT2000 by Raptor. You will get correct text in its DV part.
Canopus codec can play Dv in realtime on Celeron 450 with 80% CPU utilization. So, you are able to output analog video to tape from G400 dual head, I suppose.
The difference between DV raptor and RT2000 is only in MPEG2 capabilities of RT2000, and in the ability to do some effects/transitions in realtime on analog output of RT2000.
In DV-only editing, both cards look equivalent.
Raptor has wonderful ability to use 90% of hard drive ability to write video data. You definitely can use outdated drives with it.
Conclusion - DV Raptor is excellent DV format video editing solution.

I'll better wait and see what is future ATI mpeg2 solution based on c-cube chip.


Grigory

[andrewh]

What an interesting thread: comparing RR with Raptor, with RT2000, with DVRex and lastly ATI MPEG2 solution. That's quite a range of quality and price!!

A couple of comments: ATI solution uses DVexplore which is MP@ML (4:2:0) MPEG2 up to 10 mbits/s, nowhere near the quality of DVexpress which uses 422P@ML up to 25mbits/s. In quality editing terms these are a long way apart.

G400-TV captures up to 2.97 Mbytes/s MJPEG. This would not be as good as 422P @ 3Mbytes/s nor to DV and that is before any generation lossesincurred through encoding, decoding etc.

At this level of discussion, comparing with things like Beta SP seems pointless as few of us have better than top end DV as an acquisition format. There can be no doubt that, given DV as acquisition, Raptor and its realtives give the best results. RT2000 can give equal, does have some nice RT effects and also handles pretty high quality analogue video.

Having played with a DVexpress, I have no fears of the quality available. However, I will wait and see if the RT2000 delivers first time right performance with Premiere: that would be a rare occurence.

Andrew

[BrianP]

Where on Egghead's site can you order the Raptor? I've looked and searched their entire site and haven't found the SE version anywhere. The closest I found was the $700+ package. I know Videoguys also sells the SE, but for $60 more.

Where is it??

[BrianP]

As for an anolog converter, the DV Walkman looked really cool...

...up until I saw the $1000 price tag!! cough, cough! For $600 less I think the DA1 is a much better option.

[Jerry Jones]

Here are all of my Canpopus DV Raptor SE
links:
http://www.shopper.com/prdct/206/823.html

[Jerry Jones]

Egghead has the lowest price, but
you have to special order. I had
to do that and I still got it in
two weeks.

[This message has been edited by Jerry Jones (edited 10-05-1999).]

[Jerry Jones]

Direct Searches on the Egghead site
don't work.

Try getting there via the link I previously
posted... with the list of all Raptor SE vendors: http://www.shopper.com/prdct/206/823.html

[This message has been edited by Jerry Jones (edited 10-05-1999).]

[This message has been edited by Jerry Jones (edited 10-05-1999).]

[TheMorg]

Thank 'Crunchie' this thread came along!

I currently run a G400MAX with the RR-G, but I've just acquired a DV camera, so I'm looking at the DV Raptor to avoid using S-Video as a common-denominator.

Can somebody tell me if the DV Raptor will live in the same system as a G400/RR, so that I can accept both digital & analogue sources?

Also, if anyone knows of a UK distributor/reseller, I'd be grateful.

Thanks,

Tim

[Jerry Jones]

The video display card compatibility
chart indicates the G400 is, indeed,
compatible with the Canopus DV Raptor:
http://www.justedit.com/video2/compatibility.htm#vga

[Mark F]

Raptest -the Canopus program that tests video cards compatability with the Raptor shows the G400 is OK. It can be downloaded from the Canopus web site.

Mark F.

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OH NO, my retractable cup holder swallowed a CD

[Grigory]

ATI solution uses DVexplore which is MP@ML (4:2:0) MPEG2 up to 10 mbits/s, nowhere near the quality of DVexpress which uses 422P@ML up to 25mbits/s. In quality editing terms these are a long way apart.


I live in PAL country, and use 4:2:0 DV format for editing. Editing in native DV is easy and provides the best possible quality for me. It is obvious, because I don't need to compress and re-compress to MPEG2 and can edit with existing software.
For native 4:2:0 format, I don't need 4:2:2 MPEG2 at all. If you look at C-cube datasheet, 4:2:2 MPEG2 compression is also made slower.

I consider MPEG2 format as only a storage solution for finalized video. "Not very good" ML@MP 4:2:0 format is excellent for PAL playback. I am also not 100% sure that 4:2:2 format is widely supported by existing cheap MPEG2 decoders like Hollywood+.

Editing in MPEG2 seems to be a marketing move.
I suppose that any home user who has DV or digital8 camcorder will keep video in DV format, until he or she decide to write video on optical media for long-term storage.
Video professionals may want to use MPEG2 video in editing. This cathegory have probably better video aquisition equipment and can benefit from 4:2:2 MPEG2.
So, my idea is that MPEG2 ML@MP 4:2:2 is a good addition to Raptor, but only as standalone compression solution as a replacement of S-video or DV tape.
Now I am satisfied with the quality of bbmpeg software encoder that takes 50 hours for 8 minutes of video . The datarate I decided to use for Mpeg2 is 5-6 mbps. Anything higher does not improve my individual quality/size ratio mark.

ATI product is supposed to have $200 price level. This addition and Raptor cost less than RT2000.

"G400-TV captures up to 2.97 Mbytes/s MJPEG. This would not be as good as 422P @ 3Mbytes/s nor to DV and that is before any generation lossesincurred through encoding, decoding etc.
"
Interesting note: Matrox MJPEG codec works in 4:2:2 format. Next, data rates for MJPEG and I frame MPEG2 (both use DCT compression, no temporal compression is used for I frame mpeg2) are equal.
How can you explain the difference between MJPEG and MPEG2? If Mpeg2 allows DV-like adaptive quantization matrices inside a frame, then I frame MPeg2 quality will approach that of Dv format at 24 mbps. The next question is why to use MPEG2 as capture format, if DV format is also supported?

I'll be happy to read clarification on Matrox site some time later, as it happened after previous discussion and comparisons of Raptor and RT2000 a month ago on this Forum.

Grigory

[Jerry Jones]

To Scott V:

The DV Raptor should work with the
G200.

Check earlier posts for vendors.

The DV Raptor uses the hardware codec
of your DV device during editing.

[Mark F]

Go to the Canopus website and download RAPTEST first. Not all G200 handle the video overlay correctly. Yours may, older revisions tend not to. Mine didn't!

It's a small DL 80K. And when run gives you other info about your systems sutability for use with the RAPTOR.

There's also one available to check for use with the REX.

Mark F.

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OH NO, my retractable cup holder swallowed a CD



[This message has been edited by Mark F (edited 10-06-1999).]

[Grigory]

I use G200 Mystique of the earliest generation - with GREEN TINGE on TV output, made one year ago.
I works fine with Raptor.

Note, in the case it suddenly does not work, you will get empty Raptor application screen in place of video window.
You still can use Raptor for captures, but have to look at TV monitor.
I personally use Raptor in too high video mode like 1280x1024x32 bit. I don't need to look at its window and will be happy to make it as small as possible on the screen. D8 camcorder LCD screen is enough to monitor batch capture process.
I prefer editing in Premiere 4.2 and use software codec for previews.
To export for tape, I use Premiere 5.1 plugin and print to video from timeline.
So, you need a card that responds as supporting overlay for Raptor software installation. All later stages do not require overlay.
I must say that overlay channel quality of Raptor is much worse than RR_G quality. It is always better to preview with RR_G instead of Raptor overlay.

MPEG2.
Chroma keying legends of DV are interesting only from the point of view of existing video processing filters.
Yes, native 4:2:0 PAL chroma format has internal problems with chroma keying. Some people say that capturing PAL DV with analog MJPEG card in 4:2:2 improves chroma keying quality.
Sounds like analog stage has mysterious ability to make original 4:2:0 video better than it is. My point of view is that making digital to digital conversion we always can find a way to do everything in digital domain. The difficulty is in absence of ready filter that can be applied to decompressed DV frame (bitmap) to simulate captured via analog input MJPEG frame with "4:2:2" colorspace.
BTW, my experiments show that Gaussian Blur filter applied only to chroma components can do this well.

Motion estimation is a key for good MPEG2. Its quality makes DVMPEG unworkable, and LSX encoder not very good for my typical footage shot without a tripod. BBmpeg has the best motion estimation technique, which costs 3 seconds per frame on 450 CPU.
Have you any experience with high motion scenes and c-cube codec? The most difficult are fast camera pans on a scene with tree leaves or grass.

Grigory