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  • Questionable Marketing Practices

    I know that the first post from someone can define the person, but when you see my frustration you can see why.

    I am a Matrox Solutions Provider. I have been a very loyal Matrox promoter to my clients for years, despite some poor performance from the cards. The strongest part of Matrox has always been they kept (or use to) their promises and delivered solid and reliable drivers on a regular basis.

    Something has happened though that has lead me to seriously reconsider Matrox, and it is highly possible that this month will end my long term support with Matrox (please note I do not work for or receive any money or other form of payment from other graphic companies - I simply shoot straight and don't hold back, and I am beholdent to none)

    1. Drivers - Having most of my clients using the Marvel G200, I have had a chance to see the decline in the driver support. Of course having new drivers every month does not make a card better, but it shows that problems or enhancements are being addressed. Since the Marvel was released back in July/August of 1998, there have been technically 3 official drivers releases. The first came with the card, then 4.33 in April of 1999, and finally 5.25/5.3 in August-October of 1999. Taking over six months to deliver a driver compared to the industry average of about 3.5 months for new releases (to take into account Direct X changes and bugs in various programs). The Marvel might be the "Swiss Army Knife" of video cards, but Matrox is supplying limited cleaning and polishing agent to prevent the knife from rusting or going dull. This could be a sign that Matrox is underfunding their Driver Development????

    2 Promises Made Promises Broken - Everyone who has been involved with Graphic Cards know the long and embarassing history of Matrox and OpenGL. They made promises on their product to deliver a OpenGL driver after purchase. Well even after speaking to a company representative (lets just say he was a high level manager) last month, I was told that they delivered as promised. What they delivered was a tailor made driver for only a limited software base. I don't called that delivering on a promise. They insisted it was the full opengl. The most recent comments on the GL driver for the G400 has been summarized on several sites, from Matrox, saying that Matrox will only be tailoring its drivers for "Game Specific Titles" like Quake 2,3 and one or two other titles. No professional level support. This breaks the faith of a buyer who buys a product with a promise to have the proper items delivered when available. One again where are they cutting corners? Is there a serious problem with the Gxxx chipset? Did they give you performance in one location but sacrifice the OpenGL capabilities? No matter the excuse they failed to deliver as promised. They sold many on something they apparently never have intended to fix, but they continue to publish it on their products, while other brands advertise their OpenGL and they deliver.

    3. Product Availability - For the Matrox reps reading this, take notice, you are only hurting yourself with the lack of supply of your graphic cards in the retail chain or is it something else. For those watching the various retailers, several big name companies have stopped selling Matrox products. Others have made plans to phase out the stock they have and never restock. See my next comments regarding their marketing tactics. Coming back, stores like Compusa, Best Buy, PC Connection, and PC Mall all have either stopped selling or phasing out. Compusa stopped carrying the product all together. Matrox has blamed some marketing problem or contract disagreement with Compusa, but I feel it was more than that. Matrox is blaming the current shortage of the G400 Max on their distributor, Ingram Micro. Once again some contract dispute lead to Matrox not shipping the products to Ingram, according to several individuals at Matrox. So companies all over continue to wait for the product to be delivered. But wait you can buy it if you are willing to pay $50 plus over the going market rate if they were shipped. They have switched to a new distrubtor, but no company is aware of this.

    I don't know how Matrox (maybe being up north does things to common sense) but by the time Matrox gets the G400 Max in general distribution we will be on the Voodoo 5 and Nvidia GeForce 512 or whatever. Since the graphic card cycle is about 6 months, Matrox is going to face the same problems ATI did. They delivered a product after the market had already moved on to the next generation. Matrox was warned in many reviews, that if they fail to get the product in the retail chain quick enough this will do the G400 cards in, and sure enough they failed to get the cards out there.

    As a consultant, it is hard to promote a card you can't get (of course I can pay a premium but why). I have had many clients ask what has happened. They have found places but the prices are always higher than the market rate. The product has appeared overseas, so the product is out there. Amazing their online store seems to have an ample supply.

    Right now the GeForce 256 is knocking on the door as well as the Voodoo 4 in the next few months. I am not saying who has the best card, but who wants to buy yesterdays technology. Would you buy a card whose technology is surpassed by faster, cheaper, more flexible products? If you are a bargin hunter, yes, but if you need a product that will carry you forward, you want current technology not yesterdays. Matrox needs to re-evaluate their distribution before they lose more customers to their competitors.

    I have been trying to get at least one through the dealer demonstration/Solutions Provider program for several months. In the last two weeks I have been promised the form was being printed up and they would be delivered soon. Once again, why does it take such a long time to create a form. I was in the military for six years, and despite all the aged equipment we used I had no problem getting forms out in a day and printed. What is the reason it takes so long for Matrox to produce these forms? Instead of making the form the only way to order, they should at least try to speed up the process with a temp form so these units can get out to solutions providers to demonstrate a product that you can't get in the stores, only through Matrox or other Premium Providers. I like the program but not being able to even get a product to demonstrate makes it hard to promote a product.

    4. Questionable Marketing Tactics - I can't say for sure, and this is only speculation, not a direct charge, but the selling tactics used on the G400 Max opens a whole slew of questions. Why is it that the Matrox store has the units in stock, when major retailers can't? Many of those who can't stock the product are selling it below Matrox MSRP and Online store price. Some retailers who are selling it for above the Matrox price, seem to have a limited number on hand. For someone looking from the outside in, it creates many questions. Without directly accusing the company, but isn't it odd that Matrox has the Max but only in their store at a higher than market price????? If this was intended to be a limited release product, they once again had an obligation to present this information to the community at large as well as retailers so people would know how to get it. When you look at the Marvel G400, it has additional features, but 16mb less memory about 60 less Ramdac, but cost only $40 more than the Max? Look at the Marvel G200, now selling on their site for 279, only $20 more than the Max? What exactly is going on. It almost looks as if Matrox is leveraging the books on selling some items at lower cost, and hitting the other products with a higher margin of profit. It is easy to churn out the "Vanilla" G400, sell it at a low cost, that encourages people to buy it. This might work for Intel (Celeron vs Pentium II and III) but in the graphics industry where there are choices, this simply can't work. Maybe there is a perfect explanation for all of this, if so, then Matrox should get out there and present this to the users.

    5. Technical Support - Matrox use to provide a high quality support service. Now it is more inline with a company that works out of a garage than a top of the line hardware maker. Even the support provided in the priority que for Solutions provider leaves much to be desired.

    Take the web site. It is so amazing when you use the wizard, that the only items that have problems are with I think Avid Cinema, Asus P2B v1.0, and three to five other items. This doesn't mean that Matrox isn't making a good card that they have few problems, but I would think they would provide a larger database of knowledge. Don't bother doing a search, all you will get are the press releases or marketing information on the products. Once again this is an example where Matrox appears to be cutting corners. They should work on providing an in-depth on comprehensive online support site. Even these small shareware companies provide a more in-depth knowledge base.

    One problem I called on is something that is happening to a majority of my clients. Even with my knowledge I have been unsuccessful in solving. Their solution, use your older drivers till we can find a fix. What happened to those two months of Beta Testing. I know that there are so many combinations out there that no company can test everything. But these problems can be overlooked or ignored.


    Conclusion:
    I don't know what is happening up north with Matrox. Once a company that could be relied on for deliver a solid product for a fair price with excellent support, it has now been flipped over 180%. They have products that are near difficult to find except at a premium (yes I know Supply and Demand has some influence on price, but is that how they are able to charge more and earn more on units they sell from their store, by releasing very few to the retailers???). Their drivers are being updated less often, with bugs, and long periods of beta testing. They have technical support that is no better than a help file or readme file. They make promises they apparently have no intention on keeping, or hope that they maybe can pull off a miracle and develop this promise that they couldn't get ready to ship.

    I look forward to hearing responses from others or from those who are in the "Inside" of Matrox. Please feel free to post to my response or to my e-mail.

    Thank you.


    Tim Barnes
    President
    Barnes and Associates
    Matrox Solutions Provider
    Tim Barnes
    President
    Barnes and Associates
    Matrox Solutions Provider

  • #2
    Well I'll be dipped in shit, and rolled in breadcrumbs!
    :O)
    Windows XP Pro + SP1 - Pentium 4 3.1gig - 1024mg DDR 333 2 cas - Thermaltake Xaser Case - Parhelia 128 - 3x Phillips TFT Monitors - Audigy 2 Platinum - 6.1 surround speakers - RTx100 - 5 HD 7200rpm (420gig) - Pioneer A03 - Partridge in a pear tree

    Comment


    • #3
      ...and baked, not fried.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Tim,

        I agree with your comments regarding the Technical Support section of our web site. I am currently working with our web people to revamp this section. Hopefully, this change will be up before xmas and it will have alot more problem/solutions and easier to navigate thru.

        But, our on line tech wizard has alot more solutions than just Avid. Go have a look.

        "Even these small shareware companies provide a more in-depth knowledge base."

        What about Creative, ATI, Nvidia, Abit, Asus, etc?

        "They have technical support that is no better than a help file or readme file."

        Not true at all. No one should judge techies just because their problem couldn't be fixed right away.

        We give the best possible solutions to our knowledge. If it doesn't work, we keep at it. This does not make us a bunch of incompetent techies just because the problem wasn't solved the first time.

        Just because a client has a problem with a new set of released drivers, this does not give anyone a 100% garantee that it's the fault of these new drivers.

        For ex, when we released PD 5.xx, Quicktime 16 did not work. Sure enough, most clients automatically assumed it was our drivers causing the problem. Sure enough it wasn't, it was qucktime that was using a 16 bit dll to hook onto the display drivers.

        Also, when anyone calls us, I seriously doubt that my techies will tell you "hold on, my database is looking for an answer" or that "hold on, I am looking for that paper with the solution".

        There are alot of "Big Name" companies out there that do just that.

        This is about all I can comment on since your other issues are with marketing and the priority que for solutions provider. (I am assuming that this que is not the general tech supp que).

        Haig

        [This message has been edited by Haig (edited 27 October 1999).]

        Comment


        • #5
          You know, when I read this email this afternoon I was more than I little suprised to see it. When it appeared on the MURC front page tonight I was stunned. I have been trying to figure out if I was the only one dissatisfied with the way that the Marvel G200 was marketed and such. I mean I purchased the card for all the promised features, including Direct3D, excellent 2d, OpenGL, DVD software and video capture and output, but in the 8 months or so that I have had the card I still find myself wanting on one of these fronts. Sure with the new 5.25 drivers I finally have Video Tools that are not labeled beta, but SoftDVD is non-functional. Back with the 4.33m drivers Direct3D was poor and there was no OpenGL support at all.
          The last time I contacted Matrox MGA support I asked, among other things, why there was nothing on the Matrox site about the problems with SoftDVD the support rep replied, "The reason there is no statement release regarding the DVD and the 5.x drivers is that the project manager has not yet decided on whether it is supported or not." Then he proceded to recommend that I downgrade to the 4.33m drivers and install the Beta OpenGL ICD to work around poor Direct3D in the only game I was playing (Half Life). I had to point out to him that the beta ICD says in its documentation to use it with PD 4.51, which hadn't ever been released for the Marvel. I was told that I was was correct and I should wait. I work in technical support and I find this casual passing out of incorrect information to be very unprofessional.
          When the new 5.25 drivers were released I downloaded them and posted here asking if anyone had gotten SoftDVD to work with it. I received only one reply from someone who had the DVD hardware add-on, who basically had to use a dual boot with diferent driver revisions to get the card to work correctly. My point here is that if the product is supposed to have these feature, why can't it have all of them at once? To go back to the Swiss Army knife analogy, why do I have to uninstall the blade of my knife when I want to use the corkscrew?
          Worse still, since I had to wait until someplace had the card in stock I was stuck with Avid Cinema. Seeing that Matrox provided plug-ins for it I went out and got a copy of Premiere 4.2. Only after the system crashed numerous time did someone from Matrox tell me that they don't support or even say it will work, even though plug-ins are still provided on the Matrox website.
          I don't want to put down Matrox. I use several G200 card at work and even a few of their Digisuite and Digisuite LE capture cards. However they have proved themselves to be unreliable delivering promised features and I do feel more than a little cheated. Even if I don't agree with the statement thatMatrox has been controling supplies or that they are only aiming their OpenGL at games, but there are a number of legitimate complaints in sabertooth007's posting and it seems to me that he should know. I've only ever installed or configured 2 Marvel G200s since they were released and I have to say I would agree with at least 70% of his complaints.
          I am fairly certain that if I had known all of this before purchasing the card I would have never had bought it. Instead I sat patiently waiting for promised drivers to be released which end up causing as many problems as they are supposed to resolve. I even recommended the card early on to friends . As you might expect, I have stopped doing that.
          It was interesting to see Haig's response, but I must say that I think you missed at least part of the point. I have checked your online knowledgebase. What is there is useful but limited. I have heard of hardware and software problems and found their solutions here on this forum that I have never seen mentioned on the Matrox support pages. I can't even seem to find any mention of the above problem with SoftDVD, even though it was posted in MURC news months ago. I don't mean to put you down, Haig. As I said before I work in Tech Support, so I know how it can be. However I don't think these complaints would be considered unreasonable by any company I've work for. If they would be addressed already then complaints like this would be unnecessary.
          I can only hope that some good will come from this. I am actually going to put off writing directly back to Matrox support to see what becomes of this. I only hope that we finally get these complaints across before we are lost as Matrox users (and apparently dealers) forever.
          Regards,
          Cary

          ------------------
          If you had a infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters one of them would eventually become head of Tech Support.

          Matrox Marvel G200 PD5.25, Bios 2.6
          Abit BH-6 v1.1
          Celeron 300a at 450 2.0v
          128 MB PC-100 Dimm
          3DFX Voodoo 2 PCI
          Sound Blaster Live Value w/ Liveware 3.0
          Maxtor 5.7 GB UDMA/33 HD
          Hitachi GD-2500 3rd Gen DVD-ROM
          Generic LS-120 drive, Teac 3.5" Floppy

          [This message has been edited by NotEd (edited 29 October 1999).]
          If you had a infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters one of them would eventually become head of Tech Support.

          Abit BE6-II v1.1
          Intel Celeron 566@850
          Matrox G400 OEM 32MB DH
          Sound Blaster Live Value
          Maxtor 5.7 GB IDE Ultra33 System Drive
          Hitachi GD-2500 DVD-ROM
          Promise Ultra 66 with-
          Maxtor 30 GB Ultra66 Video drive
          Yamaha CDRW6416
          Adaptec 2940 U2W
          Windows 2000 SP2
          Generic LS-120 drive, Teac 3.5" Floppy

          Comment


          • #6
            I am surprised by the "Hornet's nest" I have created with my letter. I appreciate everyone being very professional about their responses (read: no flaming e-mail sent to me)

            I wanted to follow up the letter with some additional comments.

            I have never been rudely treated by anyone from Matrox. They are very friendly and I have no complaint in terms of how they have communicated with me. I might not agree with comments, suggestions, or statements, but never with the tone.

            I do hope that the new sales strategy does address these problems. It would be sad to see Matrox disappear from the Graphic Card market. We will in the next year start to see the results of all the consolidation in the card market. While it results in fewer variations of one card, it also leads to fewer choices, higher prices, and sometimes in cases where only one company distributes the chipset (note this is not directed at Matrox - this is a broad, general statement from my experience (and of course my degree in Business and Accounting) a lack of interest in creating a strong product and backing it with the proper support.

            I mention this as I think about a survey I had for a product recently. The marketing firm called me after I had a bad experience (not a good time for a review or survey). They asked me would I buy the product again, and I said, "If I had a choice I would switch in a heartbeat. Since they (no company being named) are the only ones who produce a product that will work with everything, I have no choice for now. I look forward to their competitors presenting a product that will force them to provide a better product and more service to the user."

            For all the "Techies" I think the individual who commented earlier called themselves, that I appreciate all the work they put in. I am sure that for every 10 good tech support solutions, there might be one bad one. Every company I have dealt with I either have had all good experiences, or just one bad experience and the rest all good. So I am not knocking the techies out there. I think we can all agree that at times we have wanted to throw this part or software out the door after having a problem, but then you talk to someone else and you are glad you didn't. So please don't mistake my comments.

            Doing all the testing and evaulating I do for my consulting, you learn who provides the best support via phone, help files, and online. I like the presentation that Matrox has, it is that it still needs to be "beefed up". For example the comment about the Soft DVD problems. I agree that if there is a problem, that it should be on the website (I haven't checked as of this writing, so if it is now on the site, Matrox I am sorry). Presenting all the information on a timely basis helps keep heads cool. The waiting for an acknowledgement of the problem is what causes most of the problems. I am sure companies post as soon as they can, and I don't fault any company. It just would be nice that when myself or a client has a problem, they go to the web site and "boom" there is a comment that either leads you to a solution or at least let you know that you $2500 computer is working but there is a driver/software conflict that can be fixed.

            I wanted to refrain from mentioning to many companies, but I wanted to point out what I consider an ideal technical support service. Microsoft (please note I am not endorsing nor promoting their products just an aspect of their service) has provided what I feel is an ideal support service/knowledge base (if you can get to it - it is a challenge for those who aren't internet skilled). I am sure some of you agree and some don't, that is the beauty of forums like this, you can say what you think or feel (like a park in London - several
            of my friends in college during an overseas study program actually got up and spoke on the sunday chats they have there). Getting back to the point, if I have a problem I type in the general problem, file name, program, or whatever could be a keyword for the problem, and I either find that Microsoft is aware of the problem (so it isn't all the coffee I drink) or they have a solution. Even better, when they don't provide a clear problem-solution answer, they give me much food for thought of what to check. It is amazing but I learned a great deal from these sessions. I always learn something new when I go to search their knowledge base for a problem.

            I know comparing Microsoft and Matrox is like comparing a car company to a tire maker. Usually that car company has much more dollars to back up their support than the tire company. But at least trying to emulate is the best way of matching their product with the lowest amount of cost to the company. Once again though, if Matrox was to post every problem they hear from users and business no one would know what is or isn't a problem. A possible solution, is post messages based on those that have or have not been verified. For example if several people call in about a problem with SoftDVD, Matrox could post this, but put a note at top saying that Matrox has not verifed the problem, but wants to alert users to a unconfirmed problem, further information and testing results will be published. This would be the best way to present support using the knowledge base applications appearing on many websites. So as they say if you can complain, then provide a way that can improve it.

            I want to respond to one last comment posted by the user Haig. I have posted the part I want to directly address below:

            "Just because a client has a problem with a new set of released drivers, this does not give anyone a 100% garantee that it's the fault of these new drivers.

            For ex, when we released PD 5.xx, Quicktime 16 did not work. Sure enough, most clients automatically assumed it was our drivers causing the problem. Sure enough it wasn't, it was qucktime that was using a 16 bit dll to hook onto the display drivers."

            I don't want to attack you as you have a justified reason to state that many people always try to put the blame on one company (I have seen many that do that), but there was something I found interesting in the example you used.

            As most know, the Quicktime 16bit has been out longer and was done before the 5.x drivers. You blame apple, but actually you are more to blame. If you published drivers and failed to test them with the widest assortment of products (on most computers, you might have Quicktime 2.x 16bit and 32bit (look in your control panel for two quicktime applets)). Those who use Quicktime know that some applications require the 16bit version and won't work with the 32bit version. This software is actually very current, not windows 3.1, so it isn't old software being used. Back to the comment that users jumped to the conclusion and blamed the driver. In this case the blame does fall on the driver. After all, if the company who publishes a software program or driver can blame software that is already out there for their product not working that is not fair to the company they blame. In this case, Apple when they published their 16bit driver did not have Powerdesk 5.x to test it with. This of course does not mean that if Apple did some action in their code that would create a problem in the future (not on purpose, no coder can predict all the multitude of applications and programs that could be running with their application) that they should try to provide a revised driver or workaround. So I don't know if Haig was blaming Apple for the problem, but for the lack of better wording I can only say that the driver from Apple was published before 5.x and Matrox should make the adjustment to account for the problem. I think you did just that by posting the comment of how to adjust the ini file to correct the problem, so you did inform the user.

            I also want to quickly comment on the general statements made before this message. I do hope that these comments help to convey a message of frustration to Matrox that its users have. It is hoped with a friendly not mud-slinging letter, that it can lead to an open dialogue and consensus between the users and Matrox.

            For those who do read this topic, I encourage the continued dialogue. I feel that the professional nature everyone has demonstrated is commendable (sp?). I hope that any future comments, if any, will keep this positive tone. So I wish to thank all of those who have responded either here or to me via e-mail.

            Thank you again for your time.

            Sincerely,

            Tim Barnes
            President
            Barnes and Associates
            Matrox Solutions Provider
            Tim Barnes
            President
            Barnes and Associates
            Matrox Solutions Provider

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Cary,

              I never dis-agreed with Tim's comments about the lack of problem/solutions found on our web site.

              I agreed with him and also stated that there will be an update. Once this update is done, it will be regularly maintained.

              Hi Tim,

              back to the Apple issue. Yes QT16 was out before PD 5.xx. Yes it did work with he previous PD drivers and yes it does not work with PD 5.xx. Reason being is that the PD 4.xx drivers are 16 bit. Since QT16 is using a 16 bit dll to hook onto the display drivers, there are no problems with our previous drivers. There are problems when they hook onto the 32 bit display drivers (PD 5.xx).

              No one has any business hooking onto display drivers. Our competitors are facing the same issue with their 32 bit display drivers.

              Here's another example. A big U.S. military force is using an application called Timbuktu by Netopia. They have plenty of G200 and G400 cards which exhibit the same problem as the Quicktime issue.

              I explained to them the reason behind the crashes. They are now putting pressure on Netopia to patch this up.

              From a Technical Support point of view, all I am saying is don't be to quick to blame the new drivers for new problems. In some cases, the older driver from product A is doing something wrong which is causing problems with all current drivers from product B.

              Also, the Technical Support section of our web site will be improved.

              Feel free to discuss any other issues regarding Technical Support.

              Haig

              Comment


              • #8
                Haig,
                I didn't mean to imply that you were not trying to do something to improve the online support on the Matrox website. I have seen the posting asking for suggestions to improve the site. I guess my point was that while improving support would be nice what would be even better is to just push the programmers to fix the problems. And if a new problem should be discovered then you should:
                a) Tell the users about it, even if there is no fix as of yet.
                b) Push hard to get it fixed, fast, whether in house or from a partner that has a bundled product like Zoran.
                Sure I was more than frustrated to be getting more information about problems with each revision of the Marvel Drivers, but what frustrated me even more was having to find out about the problems here on MURC than on the official site. It is like you guys do not want to even admit the problem.
                I'd rather a company be honest with me than to get my hopes up with every upgrade, only to disappoint me again and again. I had very similar problems a while back with Diamond and I had read good things about Matrox, so I decided on a G200 card as the one I would put in my new system this year. Back in February I purchased the card. In March I buy a DVD-ROM drive to use with Zoran SoftDVD. I pick up a copy of Premiere in June to replace the Avid Cinema, which I used once. I have had a fully functional system dangled in front of me so many times, only to find it lacking, video system wise, in some way or another.
                Man I was trying to apologise to Haig and I went off on another rant. Please don't take offense, Haig, I have found much of the advice you've given to others on this forum to be invaluable. It's just that after being disappointed for so long it feels good to find you're not the only one. All I want is what I thought I was getting when I ordered the card. I'm just afraid the technology will be too many generations behind by the time I get it.
                -Cary
                If you had a infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters one of them would eventually become head of Tech Support.

                Abit BE6-II v1.1
                Intel Celeron 566@850
                Matrox G400 OEM 32MB DH
                Sound Blaster Live Value
                Maxtor 5.7 GB IDE Ultra33 System Drive
                Hitachi GD-2500 DVD-ROM
                Promise Ultra 66 with-
                Maxtor 30 GB Ultra66 Video drive
                Yamaha CDRW6416
                Adaptec 2940 U2W
                Windows 2000 SP2
                Generic LS-120 drive, Teac 3.5" Floppy

                Comment

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