Mini DV instead of Digital 8

[dchip]

My apologies. I posted this question in a prior thread but should have introduced it as a new question.


I am not totally committed to Digital 8 yet. I saw a Sony TRV8 Mini DV today that has
me thinking I might want to make the leap to DV. My current configuration is as follows:

-Pentium III 450 w/ 128MB PC100
-ASUS P3BF Motherboard (no IEEE support)
-Western Digital 18GB Ultra ATA 66 7200 RPM
-Promise Tech Ultra 66 PCI HDD controller
-Matrox Marvel G200 TV
-Win 98 SE
-Avid Cinema
-Panasonic software MPEG-1 encoder.

This is a solid system and I have captured numerous hours of old 8mm camcorder
footage and am yet to drop even a single frame. The HDD absolutely flies with the
Promise card.

If I go with a Mini DV camcorder, what will I be facing?

What hardware can I keep and what will have to be scrapped?

Mainly, other than the camcorder, what will I have to buy and what roughly will it cost?

What software will I need?

Does Mini DV make AVI's or some other format and just how large are the files?

I don't what to end up building a whole new system, but I find DV very appealing.

Thanks for any advice on this upgrade.

[Patrick]

I don't understand why you are making a distinction between Digital8 and MiniDV in regards to your possible computer upgrade. Both formats would be supplying the same signal.

[dchip]

Hi Patrick... I should have explained that I am currently using an old fashioned 8mm unit and capturing with my G200TV. I was/am thinking of moving up to Digital 8 but now also considering Mini DV. I wasn't sure my current computer setup could handle mini dv.

So do you mean I can use Mini DV camcorder with all my existing hardware and not have to buy anything else? Can I just hook it up to my Matrox G200TV using S-Video cable and start capturing? Somehow I had gotten the impression there is something very different about the Mini DV and would require some kind of "special" capture card. Thanks for your help.

[This message has been edited by dchip (edited 03 December 1999).]

[DrMordrid]

Your system sounds like it has enough horsepower but you will need an IEEE-1394 (Firewire) adapter card to copy the DV video direct to your hard drive with no loss in quality.

If the cam you select has composite and/or S-Video outputs you -could- hook it to the Marvel can capture that way, but then you'd loose the MAJOR advantages of the DV format: higher quality and low losses when using filters, effects or titles.

The VideoStudio 4 (cheaper) or the upcoming MSPro6 (MUCH more powerful) editors would be the best software choices. Avid isn't in the right league for this job.

Dr. Mordrid


[This message has been edited by DrMordrid (edited 03 December 1999).]

[SteveR]

If your miniDV camera has an S video output then you can connect this to the Marvel S video input and capture like you would with any other S video source.

If you want to output your eventual edited footage to miniDV you will need a IEEE card. For anything else the Marvel will work and be faster and more convenient by avoiding a software miniDV to "other format" conversion.

[Patrick]

I just don't want to get involved in yet another Digital8 vs MiniDV debate. It's all archived here if you care to check it out. However, what I will say is...

D8 and DV both supply:

1) an analog composite video signal (which is what you're suppling now with your 8mm camcorder)
2) a better quality analog video signal through the S-video connections
3) a superior digital video signal through the firewire

You can reap the full benefit of either D8 or DV by using their firewire connections, but you can also make use of the S-video connections of either format with your current set-up.

[Grigory]

The internal digital recording format of both mini DV and D8 is DV data. So, the PC requirements are equal.

If you decide to got to mini DV, check the availability of analog inputs, otherwise you may be unable to record your RR_G edited video back to camcorder.

If you later decide to go to Ieee1394 card, you will definitely get a lot of quality and convenience benefits. You will get these advantages with mini DV or Digital8 camcorder - there is no difference.

One major advantage of D8 with firewire card is that you can easily digitize your analog tapes in DV format, just by playing them in D8 camcorder. You cannot do this with miniDV without recording analog signal on much more expensive miniDV tape.

Grigory.

[ScottV]

What sort of quality are you looking for? If it's just for home videos and personal stuff then use the Marvel G200 and capture the analog signal from your Digital camera. The results are superb (for home use). If you need broadcast quality professional output then go down the firewire route.

I use my Marvel G200 with a MiniDV cam and I'm really impressed. The output is far better than the output I got with a Hi8 camera and, as far as I'm concerned, looks perfect when played back from VHS tape. Therefore, I would not benefit from moving to pure digital (firewire).

[Grigory]

Hi,

You would benefit from moving to DV, believe me.

The question is mostly not in quality, but in convenience of work.

[dchip]

Thanks for all the replies. I am getting a grip on how all this stuff fits together and the firewire seems to be the magic tool.

ScottV, you are right I am just working with personal video. Digital quality is important to me but I am not prepared to start adding any cards to my system now. This is the first truly stable setup I have had in a few years, thus the care I am taking in deciding what new camcorder I will feed it with. If I can gain just some quality for now using analog input of digital signal, then I can wait and do IEEE later.

ScottV, when you pass your video back to VHS from computer, does it just come back through the G200's analog outs and, or, S-Video out?

Other than size, what advantages have you found in Mini DV over Digital 8 cams? What have you found annoying? Do you have a brand preference in Mini DV's (Sony, Panasonic, JVC, Canon, Sharp) Thanks...

[dchip]

I searched the forum and found some of the other "discussions" on this subject. Please, no reenactments of that civil war from November.

I will take the information I got from there and make my decision this weekend. Right now the Sony TRV8 is way out front in terms of compactness and picture. When I looked it the other day, I stretched out the 10X zoom to the max and noted a perfect picture on the TV set the store had it hooked up to. I did the same with the Sony TRV310 (20X zoom) and wasn't as happy with the results. The Mini DV lens auto-focused lightning fast and while the D8 was commendable, it reminded me somewhat of regular 8mm.

Unfortunately, the store would not let me do any taping (citing privacy laws) but I think those live images should give me an idea of what to expect.

Thanks again for all the replies. This forum is full of great people and useful info.

[Patrick]

The store wouldn't let you do any taping because of privacy laws? What a load of rubbish! I hope you don't plan to buy from that store. The BEST way by far to compare image quality is to compare recorded images, not live images.

I'm curious, how did the prices compare between the MiniDV Sony TRV8 and the Digital8 Sony TRV310?

[dchip]

I think the salesman just wanted an excuse to not do any real work but he did say they don't allow customers to make videotapes of the store or its customers. Anyway, the TRV310 runs about $900 (still much higher than web prices), and they want about $1350 for the TRV8. I can find these cams cheaper on the WEB but I have to consider return policies, etc. That TRV8 actually is priced pretty close to some of the web prices I have seen for the TRV900, which seems to be hard to find. I can only dream of that one though.
I'll bring something home this weekend and live with it thereafter.

[dchip]

Still struggling with decision. One thing I have learned about DV/Mini DV is that these cams need a lot of light in order to work their magic. This worries me. One of the things I know about my old 1 lux minimum illumination 8mm is that there never seemed to be enough light in the environs I found myself filming. Now I find that these digital units need at least 4-7 lux to see well. This seems very strange since they have the latest technology. Am I reading too much into these lux ratings? The Sony HI 8's want 0.4 lux while the Sony TRV8, TRV10 and TRV510 want a full 4 lux or more. I am reasoning that since the unit is capturing more information, it needs more light to do so, but now I have to ask myself what tradeoff am I about to make? In my quest for higher quality video will I end up searching even harder for a bright spot to get it from??

[Patrick]

You are NOT limited to only using ambient light. Get a battery powered camera mounted light. The good ones work well. Even a small, cheap one can really make a big difference in situations where your subject is not too far from the camera.

All camcorders require a certain amount of light to give you satisfactory picture quality. Don't be fooled by artificially low lux ratings supplied by the manufacturers.