Whats the difference

[mmilburn]

Apart from the software that comes bundled with DV capture cards. Is there a difference in quality output from say a Raptor and a Pyro DV card.

I would like to know if paying the extra for a Raptor is worth it over a Pyro card.

Any comments

Martin

[jeff b]

You do currently get one major feature with the DVRaptor, when using MSP, that you don't get with the 'vanilla' IEEE-1394 cards such as Pyro and SIIG: timeline playback of a project back out to the camcorder. Canopus has done an exceptionally good job with their software and their software support according to users, so it's a sure bet that you'll be able to get it running with less hassles than any other DV NLE product at this time, including more recent and more expensive products such as DV500 and RT2000.

Another 'pro Canopus' claim that's being made over on rec.desktop.video over the last few weeks is from a fellow named Michael Carr: http://mcarr.eecs.umich.edu/msp6/

With my SIIG card and MSP6, I personally don't have the problems he's describing, either with sound sync, or with multi-generational loss using the MS DV codec. He won't respond to the audio problem having been solved with post 10/99 drivers, and I've done re-renders out to ten generations without any difference in the quality that I can see. The generational loss issue is certainly a moot point, however, as I'm sure that if one were to use some professional testing gear to study it, then there may very well be something to the claim. I just don't see it at the 'consumer' level I'm working at.

There's really only one thing that keeps me on the 'vanilla' IEEE-1394 track, and that is that this route keeps any and all 'proprietary' issues out of the picture. I consider the generic, TI based, PCI OHCI Compliant 1394 Card, as driven by the Windows98 SE driver, to be as UN-proprietary as it can get. Since MSP6 came out, this 'vanilla' setup works really well, IMHO. I'm free to use the installed port for any other purpose, since it isn't tied to a proprietary driver. This is really my only reason for continuing to pursue it, since I was tied down to a proprietary setup with my previous analog capture card and it begged clean re-installs of Windows every couple of months!

Since the generic 1394 cards are so cheap, people such as yourself would easily find it more to their liking simply because of the cost. The timeline playback issue will, sooner or later, be resolved.

But the minute you cross over into either 'more money is not the issue' or into doing professional or semi-pro NLE, the issues lean more towards speed and ease of use/installation. Canopus DVRaptor wins hands down on the ease of use/installation issue, and the RT2000 wins hands down on speed and professional features lines.

In the end, it all depends on what you're going to be DOING with NLE that would make your purchase clear. I consider myself a 'serious hobbyist' with NLE, and I'm somewhat fussy about the quality of the video when I finally put a finished project onto a VHS tape for friends and family. For the past couple of years, I've had to settle for a somewhat compromised level of quality using the Mystique220/Rainbow Runner Studio. With my current 1394 and DV setup, I finally have a level of quality that I always wanted.

[Phil Pugh]

I would endorse Jeff's remarks. I have used MARVEL G200 and RAPTOR in the same system for about a year. DV gives you far better quality.

As for different DV cards, these shouldn't affect the quality of the video. They are only I/O devices in as much as they read and write data streams from and to the camcorder. You can copy back and forth as often as you want and the quality should not be altered. Quality change can be caused by successive re-rendering, the DV CODEC is not lossless, but as Jeff says - you can't see it for 'normal' quality-concious amateur use. Don't forget we would be talking rendering a clip, saving it, loading it again and re-rendering - many times. Like you were adding multiple effects or transitions one at a time. I would have thought that this could be avoided by a bit of thought about what one is trying to do.