Weird Real VCR to Marvel BOB Problems, Please read.

[Phire]

I got a tape I wanted to capture and it looks really good quality on the TV but when i put the composite cables into the BOB and look in PC-VCR or any other capture program the picture becomes all distorted.. like garbled video as if you would see with a really low quality tape recording.. But it looks nothing like this on the TV, it seems to happen with this tape, and with another tape i tried it works fine. Im not talking about the video header thing at the bottom, it's not that. The result is that the Marvel drops any frame that looks all garbled from the VCR, and it seems to happen ever 5 seconds, it dropped so many frames that the audio went out of sync.

[Tinnes]

I have exactly the same problem as you. It only happens on new videos, old ones work fine. I found that if you that play around with the VCR tracking tool that comes with Video Tools it gets rid of the garbage frames but instead makes the top all bendy. As soon as you put it back again the bending stops but back comes the bad frames. It's REALLY anoying.

[Phire]

Here's a screenshot I made:

[Phire]

Here's a screenshot I made:



As you can see the top is bended, it looks NOTHING like this on the TV and there are far more worse frames than this that happen but i wasnt able to catch one, they are so bad that the marvel drops them.

[Phire]

Someone needs to find a solution to this problem quickly.. I have another thing i'd like to mention. Another tape I have which I think is the exact same tape style as the video which did NOT get the distortions works fine. The tape's seem to be the same, but im not 100% sure, could it be maybe that SVHS causes these distortions? Whatever the case is, all my good tapes cant be captured well maybe someone should report this to matrox..

[smitty]

Hi Are these tapes macrovision encoded?
smitty

[Phire]

Actually, PC-VCR did not let me record my other tape which did NOT have distortions so i had to use another program, but nevertheless it still played fine, no distortions and it was a semi-good quality picture but not nearly as good as the one that DOES get the distortions. The tape with the distortions lets me record and gives no macrovision error. Let me point out again, the one that had no distortion and the one that does seem to look like the same type of tape recorded on.. So i dunno if it could be the specific tape or not. Maybe SVHS causes this i have no idea.. One thing i'd like to point out is that the distortion happens ALWAYS, meaning this is not just on the recorded file but just viewing it normally in a program it's like that. Also one thing i've noticed is that the distortions dissapear when using the fast-forward button on the tape.. but once you hit play it all comes back.. the Tracking utility helps alittle but the video is still distorted as that person said above.. This is a very serious problem :~( I hope someone can figure out how to fix this becuase i had great hopes for my marvel to capture these great quality tapes.

[Phire]

Can fluggo, haig or anyone remedy this problem? btw not only does it bend the top but i think it adds discoloration to it.. it makes the top part green..

[jeff b]

Just some info to help narrow down the problem might help... Is the tape that has the problem a commercially sold tape, or is it one that someone made for you? What type of machine are you playing it back on? Since you are also mentioning SuperVHS, was the tape recorded in SuperVHS mode on a SuperVHS VCR?

[Phire]

They are tapes made by a friend of mine, and i'm not sure if the tapes are SuperVHS but they are labled as "Fuji MASTER". As I said before, that i have other things on other Fuji MASTER tapes that do not produce these distortions though the quality of the recorded video is not like the ones that do.
On the VCR is says Quasi S-VHS playback so i guess that means it has support for SVHS.. As to weather the tapes are SVHS or not i don't really know the answer.. But he did tell me that the tape which does get the distortion was copied from an SVHS tape.. so the question is, is if the tape he gave me had SVHS support.. It would be nice if someone could test their SVHS VCR /w SVHS tape and see if they get these problems.

[smitty]

Hi The appearance of the screenshots indicates a tracking problem.ie the bending at the top and clor shifts. SVHS does not cause this problem normally.
a/ if the original recording was not to specs
it may show up on your capture and not a NTSC monitor.The NTSC monitor has circuitry which can compensate for out of spec signals.
By out of spec I'm refering to black level,color saturation,white level.The only way I know of to test this is with a vectorscope and waveform analyzer.I don't know if the ones in Ulead would work?
b/ You didn't say what make,model of vtr you are playing this tape with.It may be possible this is the problem.
If you can try another machine and/or a tape from a different source.
smitty

[Phire]

"Hi The appearance of the screenshots indicates a tracking problem.ie the bending at the top and clor shifts. SVHS does not cause
this problem normally."

A program comes with the latest video tools called VideoTracker, this program helps but not enough.. It stops it distorting alot but the top part is still bent, just not all the way.. It also gets rid of frame dropping.

"it may show up on your capture and not a NTSC monitor.The NTSC monitor has circuitry which can compensate for out of spec
signals."

It shows up even when I don't capture.. Just none of the distortions show up on TV and im an NTSC user. I get color distortions and bending just by viewing them into the TV-IN.

"By out of spec I'm refering to black level,color saturation,white level.The only way I know of to test this is with a vectorscope and
waveform analyzer.I don't know if the ones in Ulead would work?"

Hmm so non-ordinary specs would cause a problem like this?

"b/ You didn't say what make,model of vtr you are

playing this tape with.It may be possible this is the problem.
If you can try another machine and/or a tape from a different source."

Don't have another VCR to test with.. I was hoping someone else could try with a SVHS tape maybe..

My VCR is:

SHARP 4 HEAD / SHARP SUPER PICTURE
19 MICRON HEADS / EZ SETUP & AUTO CLOCK SETTING / S-VHS QUASI PLAYBACK

And has a button for S.PICTURE, I toggled it but seems to make no difference.

A friend mentioned to me that what may be causing this is Macrovision encoding.. He had told me that can cause dropped frames etc. I don't know much info about this though.

[This message has been edited by Phire (edited 16 March 2000).]

[TommyS]

I normmally acquire (with Marvel G200) S-Video self made tapes from my S-Video VCR and i never got that problem, but i'm using a Pal system, i don't know if it can be a Ntsc problem.
Ciao - Sebastiano

[smitty]

To clarify I use svhs and have no problem.
I have seen results similar to yours caused by tapes duplicated on machines without any processing of the video signal.Read black level.I have seen problems with some "quasi svhs" playback decks and suggest that if this is a very important tape that you first verify that it is svhs( which will be stamped on the tape cassette)then test with a true svhs deck.Failing this I would try to obtain the original as I fear that your copy is the source of your trouble.
also I was trying to indicate that NTSC monitors are MUCH more forgiving of a poorly recorded signal level than computer monitors when the video is routed through a "capture" card.
best of luck
smitty

[Tinnes]

It does it on original video's it's not just copies. As I said before it's usally on newly released videos.

eg. Matrix