Which DV Camcorder to buy ??? £1K to spend

[This_Idiot]

Let me know how you get on Pooh

I'll be concentrating on the Canon (it can be denEUtered for free). Current best prce I've seen is £660 (Empire Direct) vs £598 for TRV110 (Comet direct)

[Patrick]

Hi Chris,

There may be no "theoretical reason" why the S-video signal is superior from a DV camcorder as opposed to an analog unit, but in the real world, DV usually wins hands down. There are just simply too many variables affecting the playback quality of an analog recorded signal, and none of these variables improve the signal quality!

Sounds to me like Pertti and I agree 100%...

[mynx]

The Digital8 and the Hi8 do use the same optics. Most camcorders from the same company all use the same optics. As with anything the quality does vary from one camcorder to the next. No two components are exaclty alike.

[Pooh]

Well chaps

I got my hands on a Digital8 today and I have to say the preliminary results are very good. The SVHS qualtiy of the D8 does in fact seem better than the Hi8 by quite a bit.

More testing to be done.

Regards

Pooh

[mmilburn]

Pooh,

What model did you get. I will be going the D8 route.

Does anyone know if Sony`s updated D8 models are out.

Martin

[Pooh]

Hello Mmilburn

I got a DCR-TRV110E PAL

Can you please expand on " Sony`s updated D8 models " as I've got a 16 day return period on this camera. If there is a more up to date Sony D8 on the horizon I would be better going for that.

Pooh.

[Pooh]

Hello Brian

I would like to echo your comments. The more I play about with the D8 and my DC30+ the more impressed I am.

One feature I have noticed though is when capturing from a HI8 tape being played back on the D8 machine there are usually a couple of dropped frames every time it comes across a point where the camcorder was paused and then restarted during the recording process. having said that when you get by those two or three frames it's find again.

No such problems with capturing when recorded in D8 mode.

Pooh

[This_Idiot]

All too cool blokes - can't wait to get my own DVcam. I'm told that my cheque's "in the post" (alright, it will be in the post on Friday), so hopefully another 10 days or so and I'll be enjoying instead of being scared to touch my mates TRV10e (on loan). Talking of which, it is an impressive piece of kit and I'm sorry that my budget doesn't stretch that far.

Of the cams in my budget, I've now managed to get my hands on the Pan NVDS11, and have to say that the layout didn't suit me one bit. The zoom control just wouldn't fall to hand easily and even when I stretched to reach it I couldn't get a smooth zoom speed. I also tried a natty little Sharp (VLPD3 I think) which had the same drawback. Since I don't have any 8mm stock, the D8 route isn't an overriding factor for me, and the increase in overall size is a definite disincentive. So it looks like I'll be going with the Canon DM MV200, which has a good manual focus override, a zoom button that I can reach and is easily denEUtered.

But none of them have the solid feel of the TRV10e. Ah well, paupers can't be fussy.

[Brian Ellis]

Chris

If there was no difference between DV>analogue and analogue>analogue, then DV would never have taken off. A few years ago, all DV cameras had only analogue outputs (unfortunately, mine included) and the difference from my previous SVHS-C is OUTSTANDING. Even recording to an ordinary VHS tape from either gives a very noticeable difference. The difference in resolution, after transfer to VHS, is small, but still noticeable, as is the signal-to-noise ratio. The difference in luminance range is more noticeable and the biggest difference is in colour rendition (not to mention sound).

In fact, I would go so far as to hazard that DV>analogue>VHS would be almost as good as DV>IEEE-1394>VHS because most of the advantages of the latter would be lost in the VHS stage.

------------------
Brian (the terrible)

[Pooh]

With all this talk of IEEE1394 cards and DV inputs etc its got my juices running. I'm not sure about how it would work though with my DC30+.

Lets assume I get a Pyro Digital Video 1394 card for £100 and capture a clip from the D8 using the card, would I be able to drag the captured file into Premier 5.1c as I currently do with my mjpeg files captured via the DC30+ and then apply transitions and titling as normal.

If that is the case how would I output the files to my SVHS VCR. Would I have to render the files to mjpeg format so that the DC30+ could output the signal or as an alternative get the DV-in feature of the Sony D8 Camcorder activated and then output the project from Premier to the D8 Camcorder and then using the SVHS output of the camcorder to output to SVHS VCR.

Seems like a lot of hassle.

Finally would I be correct in assuming I would be better spending a little extra cash and get 1394 card with a SVHS out capability.

Any help would be apprecated

Pooh

[This_Idiot]

Hi Pooh,

My understanding from what I've seen here on the forum is that Prem 5.1C won't cut the mustard with DV. Word is that you need VS4 or MSPro6. And also that the Pyro will be shipping with BOTH in the near future.

I haven't tried outputting via the DC30 any way other than MJPEG, so I can't tell you if it's possible.

What does anyone else think on this ?

[scooterboy]

Chris be careful with the MV200 if you plan to go the Pyro (or any other generic OHCI card) route. You *may* find yourself stuck with the Texas Instruments driver

There seems to be (some) reports of a problem with the alternative Microsoft driver detecting PAL mode on these camcorders.

As the MS driver is required if you want things like device control (and is the recommended driver for use with Win2000) being forced to use the TI driver may leave you with cut down functionality

reading between the lines Sony seem to have worked closely with MS in development of the MS driver.. While I dont think they set out to deliberately nobble the driver there may be the chance that the format detection routines didnt pay too much attention to DVcams that differed significantly from the Sony models in terms of data timings etc.

speculation at this stage but something to consider if you're about to spend hard earned pennies..

Re your query on Premiere the prob is regarding the new DirectShow Type1 AVIS used by these capture devices Premiere at this stage works only with the older VfW Type 2 format AVI's

AS MS has effectively stopped VfW development (and Type 1 has some advantages re max file sizes) I dont expect it to be too long before PRemiere catches up (rumours are that Ver 6 later this year will add the necessary support)

At the moment only Ulead MediaStudio and Video Studio have the neccessary support for Type1 AVI'sthat these budget cards require

Does raise interesting possibility of being able to carry out a 12GB or 24Gb single file capture under Win2000 though.. (probably just as well as these cards dont ship with file spanning utils you find in MJPEG or higher end DV cards)

Under Win98SE you are limited to 4Gb (18min)captures - a factor compounded by a current lack of timeline playback to DV cam from MSPro (though Ulead are working on it)

Its a pity about the price of te TRV10 Theres plenty of 'uprights' of comparable quality available at far lower prices (799 for sharp etc) but as you've noticed they can be a pain to use

I've got a PC100 here thats nothing short of a pain in the a*se when it comes to focussing and zoom thanks to the uprgight design (and its slightly front heavy too again something thats all too apparent with the upright design). If I was buying another micro sized MiniDV cam I'd definately opt for the TRV10E

As it I feel our TRV900 is going to see a lot more real use than the PC100 (which'll probably spend most of its time being used as a deck rather than a cam)

Steven C

[scooterboy]

Chris re your cam budget

You are aware:

A) that the TRV8E is same cam as the TRV10E
other than the memory stick feature? First place I looked showed the TRV8E at around £800 versus £950 for the TRV10E (from ask electronics www.ask2.com)

B)that the TRV8/10 has no analog input. Sure DV can be enabled but the cam doesnt have an analog in (enuetered or not) Again worth checking pre-purchase whatevr cam you opt for
D8s have both inputs when eneutering is removed (as do the higher-end miniDV (TRV900 GX1 etc which werent enuetered in first place) but a lot of the midrange stuff doesn't

Steven C

[This_Idiot]

Hi Steven, thanks for the input. I wasn't aware of that particular problem with the DV200 - although I have tested the TRV10 with the TI drivers under W98SE and it definitely DOES allow transport control from VS4.

I also wasn't aware of the difference between the TRV8 and 10 - there are so many models about that it's a nightmare trying to research the lot from cold. I'm just running a price check now to see what the TRV8 can be bought for, although I think it still might be over my budget. I'll let you know how I get on.

[scooterboy]

Hi Chris

Yep as you've saw, you will get basic transport control from the TI driver but you don't get access to the batch capture device control that MSPro 6 offers witht the MS Driver

ie wih MS Pro 6 you can set multiple in and out points while playing your footage, then when you start a batch cap MSPro can cotrol the camcorder rewinding fast forwarding to the particular tiecodes on the tape and capturing only those sections (well with SP mode recordings anyway.. the method it uses isn't too clever with LP mode recordings)

ask electronics prices were a little high for the TRV900 (1450 versus 1340 elsewhere)so I'm sure you may find that their TRV8 price is a little higher than what you might find with a good search around

Steven C