Sharing XP-RC2 experience

[beppi]

VideoRecording

I use the matrox PC-VCR for recording that came with the G450eTV and playback is Windows mediaplayer and also WinDVD3.
Editing I use the build-In one with XP and converting to MPG4 I use Vidomi. Also sometimes I use TmpgEnc 12i and started to try premier601 again but I consider Adobe as "clunkerprograms". Premier tells me that it would take 2 days to convert to mpg4, I started it in case it was just a timerror, nope, it was true. Vidomi does it with 35fps, or faster then I recorded, under 2hrs for a 2hr movie. I guess I am just not a Adobe Fan. I played up and on with Photoshop (pics) and premier (video) and sorry folks but always something is not working out. It is not even always the same problem. So I gave up on this clunkers. I have a trialversion of AIST but to early to tell, except I like the interface and it seems to work fast with my 2 CPU's.
Have a great day

[stevenscott]

It is now common knowkedge that the latest developments and very soon to be next generation release of windows is a tool by Micrososft to circumvent any legal action by the US Justice Dept. as a monopoly. MS will hurry this release up and therefore the US Justice Dept. will not be able to do much after this release. This next release is a tool, and wether or not it is ready, is is widely accepted, it will serve a great purpose by basically killing off any attempts by this US Justice Dept. Anti=Trust Case, still woven deeply through the courts. Now before you say I am one of those MS bashers, I am not, this is being discussed everyday on the Legal and Technical news shows. This release being sped up is a great strategy by Bill Gates. I have no clue about this new release, other than what I read, and what people post and say. I just use my Win98. The only things that bother me are bloatware and the monopoly aspects where MS Bundles everything and you have to find ways around installs, re-installs, and an OS that is full full of crap it takes 20 minutes to boot. Oopps, and the fact about some wild licensing issues, that are so tight, you cannot breathe without holding the license in your hand and moving software from one computer to another impossible without some key from MS Nazis. Now that's scary too. Once it is out of the barn, the US Justice Dept. Case and Anti-Trust will be History, the horses will be out of the barn, big time. Unless the courts throw a quick injuction up to stop this release withing the next couple of weeks.

[hapz]

beppi,

does that mean that you installed the video tools successfully under XP? As I mention, my installation failed at least 50%. PC-VCR is not available bu the drivers seem to be.

stevenscott.

XP has that fastes boot time ever!!! You should try it. A lot of negative remarks about XP have no foundation whatsoever

[wkulecz]

Hapz, In Media Studio Pro6 quickly cutting up large files is so easy its hard to describe. Premiere6 works pretty much the same but I'm less familiar with the names of Premiere's windows and tools, so won't try to describe how I've done it.

Basically there is two stratagies: if its "mostly keep" I load the large clips into the timeline, cut with the scissors tool and make precise end trims with the "trim window" while having "grabbed" the end of a clip. I then drag and drop the segments to where I want them. Multiple files doesn't matter they are added, cutup and re-arranged the same way. If its "mostly cut" I load the clip into the source window set In/Out points and drag the selection to the timeline, then move the In/Out points to repeat as needed, either choosing different regions of the same file or after loading a new file.

I generally find zooming/scrolling the timeline with keyboard shortcuts and scrubbing the fastest way to navigate. This is what's driving me to Premiere6 as MSP6 doesn't do timeline scrubs out the DVDmax feature of my G450 dualhead -- Premiere does. I get tired of the small "preview" window on larger projects

--wally.

[Dr Mordrid]

Start thinking in terms of MSPro 6.5 guys. Seriously.

MSPro6.5's capture utility can do scene detection captures, so cutting on the timeline will be a moot issue most of the time. You can also trim clips in the Storyboard, another new feature.

Once the clips are trimmed and arranged in the Storyboard you can automatically move them to the Va/Vb complete with overlaps for placing transitions already in place. You also have the option of placing them on Va/Vb with cuts instead of overlaps.

The changes to the capture utility alone will make folks smile; no restarting to change capture plugins, scene detection, segmented captures of defineable size in DV etc. etc.

It also runs like a bat out of hell in Win2K. Add a P4 and things become fun as its optimized for the P4's SSE2. This speeds up things a lot.

Scrubs to DVDMax were absent in MSPro 6.0 because it uses DirectShow for previewing (which does show in DVDMax) and Video for Windows for scrubbing (which does not).

This too is due for a change. The last I checked with Ulead they were working on changing this in the release version of MSPro 6.5. Once they make this change Instant Previews will also export to DVDMax as well. They were very serious about making this change. Think about that one a few..........OK, times up.

Now.... add a P4, which makes multilayered Instant Previews realtime with most all effects & plugins.

Given those changes, what do you think of the the future of software realtime cards like the DVRaptor RT etc.?

Now....once you had such a skippy setup would you slow it down by installing XP?

XP:Win2K :: ME:Win98SE

Dr. Mordrid

[hapz]

Doc,

What exactly do you mean by scene detection captures? Will that work also for analog captures?

As mentioned, I'd like to capture a whole tape at once.


Wally,

Thanks for your decriptions. Maybe I am doing something wrong, but I find the process of determining in/out points for all the scenes I want to move, shorten, etc. extremely cumbersome. Having scenes pre-determined makes this a lot faster and gives much better control. Of course, if you leave a vast number of scenes together and untouched the story is diffferent.

I don't know whether anybody here used Pinnacle's VideoDirector or Studio400. Despite all their problems, these programs did a nice job of detecting and cataloging(!!!) scenes.

[Dr Mordrid]

Scene detected capture works with DV only as analog cams don't place the required marker on the tape when a recorded scene starts/stops.

What it does is similar to what Scenealyzer does: it looks for each scene by locating said markers and captures each as a separate file. It works like a charm, especially in conjunction with the Storyboard. Setting up a layout with these features takes a lot of time off the job.

You'll have the option of full tape and AVI_IO-style segmented captures as well. Segments can be defined to any size you want up to 4 gigs. Setting them to 650 - 700 megs would let you archive each segment to a CD-R if that's you're preference.

BTW: anyone thinking about setting up a P4 system for MSPro 6.5 might want to wait for the Socket 478 "Northwood" P4's to come out. These P4's will run at 1.9 and 2.0 ghz, will be on a .13 micron die and will work with the new Intel i845 and VIA P4X chipsets. The initial i845's will come in versions ready for PC-133 memory.

DDR-SDRAM versions of the i845 should ship around Jan 2002. The VIA P4X will be DDR capable from the get-go. Both are said to be faster than a P4/RAMBUS and the VIA will be at their usual price point. We'll see how stable it is for editing.

The rumor mill is saying that the i845 is "the next BX". Again, we'll see.

Now...if only AMD would hurry up with some 2 ghz SSE2 compatable chips...

Dr. Mordrid

[beppi]

PC-VCR

Yes, I install the Matrox software straight into a clean XP install without a hitch. Detects everything just like I would be in 98 or W2K installation. Yes, the window is coming up that the driver is not certified but it works perfect anyway. Sorry that you have some problems with it.
As for editing, I have a trial of Ulead Pro and actually I liked it the most of all when I was playing around because it is very easy to use, except one problem, it is not multithreaded. Meaning it does not take advantage of my 2 933 PIII CPU's. Neither does of course the drivers from Matrox. That was the reason why I went and replaced my 2 533 PIII with the 933's.So at least I could capture in full screen with 1 CPU. Now I split the CPU's, I asign 1 CPU to do all the regular chores that would normally run on any single proc machine (writting letters running all tray apps, internet etc......) and the other one strictly and only recording. Just to everybody interest about dualprocessors, I don't have them because it is so much better, greater, faster etc..., No, my reason is very simple, "because I can!!!!". No excusses or whatever other people may say why everybody needs 2 CPU's instead of one. It was just fun to build this computer. The speedgain averages about 50% more then a single processor computer, therefore, forget that you get 2 computers in one.
Once finished recording I switch and let both CPU's working to convert with vidomi to mpeg4. So far it works great
About Ulead Pro, I taught about give it a new trial and let it run on 1 CPU. Premier is suppose to be multithreaded but I can't see the speed, like I say, Adobe are clunkers (Hi) and Vidomi shows me how fast 2 CPU's are.
Thanks for your time

[wkulecz]

IF Ulead really has fixed the scrubbing out DVDmax problem I'm ready to order the 6.5 ugrade now!

OTOH automatic scene detection sounds good on paper but until I know how it defines "a scene" kind of hard to tell if its useful or not. For what I shoot and the way I shoot it I'm betting automatic scene detection won't work well for me -- definitely in the "have to see it to believe it" catagory, not something I'd buy an upgrade for hoping it worked well enough to be useful.

XP's Remote Desktop was somehting I was ready to upgrade for in the hope that it would work well enough to be usefull, thanks to the $10 I spent for RC1 & RC2 previews, I learned how much hassle WPA will be to me (in its current form) and that Remote Desktop has a long long way to go to be as good as VNC.

--wally.

[hapz]

Doc, that means no scenedetection for analog capture? This would be just an easy way out for Ulead. Detection based on optical characteristics work pretty well, but it requires some efforts. They are not perfect but what is. Better than nothing.

beppi, your success under XP seems to be related to your different board. You have a 450 vs. my 400+RRG.

wally, if scene detection doesn't work for you, don't use it. That's what options are all about. It definitely would work for me and I can't have it ;(

[Elie]

Hapz, I think scene detection optically (if possible) will consume a huge amount of CPU resources to calculate chroma and luma values, especially if the scene itself is complicated i.e. lot's of pans and movement.
Currently as Doc mentioned scene detection is available only for
DV due to the marker that is inserted everytime you stop/start.

One thing to mention here, is that I have the RT2500 running flawlessly under Win2K. Matrox also supports Win98SE and ME however the advantages of Win2K far exceed that of prior OS's as mentioned above.
The Matrox Media Tools included with the RT2x00 editing cards is one of the best tools I've used because it scans and captures (scene detects) in a single pass, which is a very important feature.

Going back to WinXP, some of us here are beta testers, (you can see where this is going) we constantly test software and hardware, we tear our machines apart to change hardware components etc., everything you can think of, now what will happen to WPA?
We will be on the pphone to Microsoft every day Mind you we all have Internet connections so the process is much easier, but never the less, an unnecessary step.

Hopefully Micro$oft will fix this issue sooner or later, make it a one time deal, not everytime you change a hardware component like a CPU.

Cheers,
Elie

[beppi]

MSPro6.5

Hi,

Dr Mordrid where is any info about MSPro6.5. I went to the Ulead site and don't see even a hint about that. Normally you would hear something about the upcoming new version. Since you may have allready a betaversion could you tell me if it is now multithreaded or if they think about doing it. I would be interested in that version.
I liked MSPro6 (I downloaded the trialversion) but for the money they want I expect at least that it is multithreaded and hopefully better multithreaded then Premier. It was my reason not to buy MSPro6.
I don't really like to work in the bundled version of Ulead since it is a 4 version and a pretty childish interface and so is the version 5. From 6 on it looks like a real videoediting software. Even tough most of the time I just edit out advertisements in the movies I capture. My wife likes advertisements, I like some of the movies. hi.
I am still undecided with AIST if I like it or not. It is multithreaded but then it seems like I would have to buy a lot of add-ons.
Conclusion: The software should be as easy as MSPro6, should have all toys from premier with some capability's from AIST and the price would be somewhere around nothing to 50.- bucks. HI

[Sciascia]

timeline scrubbing

If you resize your timeline monitor window to 704*480 it will output to through DVD Max while scrubbing. You can see the frame advances in the timeline window, but not the TV output. I can live with that. I believe that it switches to Directshow when using the original resolution of the capture. I like it because I use the max resolution for my desktop anyway and it allows me plent of real estate to do this.

[hapz]

Elie, I'd love to try a RT2500, but it is simply too expensive for non-commercial use ;(

Haven't found one that likes MS's PA. This is one of the reasons I don't even consider upgrading to the new Office suite.

Somehow I think WPA will go away eventually because it will be a major headache for MS.

[wkulecz]

Starting stopping the camcorder doesn't define a scene for me. A change in lighting doesn't define a scene for me. Thus I don't see any of these schemes are helpful to me thus its not a + feature in a buy decision.

Once I see one that works, I might change my mind. But basically I usually try to have one scene (usually with multiple takes) on a single tape. Usually two or three tapes of the same scene from different camcorder angles.

I'm all in favor of options, but this was touted as the big thing in MovieMaker -- I hope to try it this weekend as I missed it the first time. But unless this does magic indeed, I don't see MovieMaker as any reason to upgrade to XP -- W2K and Video Studio or even Video Wave would be far better as a bare bones introductory editing system, one one of these comes "free" with just about any 1394 card.

Basically I want tools that are powerful and flexible enough allow me to work the way that is most effective for what I'm doing at the moment, yet easy enough to learn that I can concentrate on the work and not the tool. Photoshop and Mikata cordless tools come to mind as obvious examples, although Photoshop is pretty much impossible to use if you don't invest time to watch the turorials that come with it -- that's what made me buy my first sound card, so I could hear the talking heads on the PS3 CD!

Premiere6 comes with a good tutorial, but to me it seems that if you don't follow the workflow scheme it lays out, Premiere starts to feel clunky.

Ellie,
I asume (hope!) the MSDN version of XP will not have WPA just as most of the MSDN OS installers don't bother asking you to type in the stupid "serial number". Server versions of the OSes are the usual exception. I will need to test my code on XP so I'll have to maintain it on at least one system.

--wally.