Strange question on mini dv sound

[Vidgal]

This is probably a very stupid question, but is it typical for the sound from a consumer-level mini dv camcorder to be much lower in volume than what is captured on a Hi8 unit. I ask because the Sharp I got (and I'm trying to sell) seemed to capture very low sound. The volume was low not just through the cheezy internal speaker, but through headphones or -- most fatally -- when captured through firewire. When I sent it in to be checked, the service center said there was nothing wrong with it. Now, I'm seeing ads on ebay that talk about the camcorder sound being "good and loud". Is this a normal issue with lower priced dv cams or did I just get a lemon?

The picture on the Sharp seemed pretty good, but as this isn't 1917, I don't want to make silent movies. Which consumer-level mini dv has the best sound -- and an external mic jack?

By the way, how do they sell those JVC's with no mic inputs even on the very expensive cams?

[Dr Mordrid]

That's not a problem with my Panasonic's (PV-DV200 and PV-DV600) and Canon Elura. DV's audio will blow me off the chair if I don't watch the Santa Cruz's playback levels

Playback levels in the cam can often be adjusted. My cams have volume controls that work very well. As for what's going on once it's imported, it could be low levels to start with (in which case the problem is the cam) or your mixer settings.

Dr. Mordrid

[Vidgal]

Glad to know the Panasonics and Canons have volume as that's where I am going next. There are no further adjustments that can be made in the Sharp. The volume is turned all the way up on the camcorder and that produces about half the volume of my Hi8. After capture, I had to increase the volume level to at least 130% in MSP. With the Hi8 captures, I often had the set the volume to 80% or less -- especially if I was adding a music track.

[wkulecz]

You don't per chance have your Sharp DV cam in 12-bit mode?

The overall levels will have to be lower as there is 1/16 the dynamic range to work with.

I've never figured out why most of DV cams I've looked at seem to default to 12-bit sound.

--wally.

[Dr Mordrid]

Great thought Wally. I completely forgot about most cams defaulting to 12 bit audio.

SO, the obvious next step is to set the cam to 16 bit audio and see what happens.....

Dr. Mordrid

[dchip]

Why the default to 12 bit audio

As close as I can figure, this 12 bit default in these fairly sophisticated little cameras is a throwback to one of the "cool" features they have. Namely, the ability to film with 12 bit audio and then use the mic-in jack to add another audio track to the video without erasing the original audio. Supposedly, recording the first audio track in 12 bit gives the user the best chance of adding another track and ending up with pretty decent sounding audio.

I guess one of these days they will realize that even Grandma is doing this stuff on the computer these days, where there are no limits.

[Dr Mordrid]

Most DV cams with mic jacks do that with 12 bit. 12bit is part of the DV spec and in there anyhow so.....

Dr. Mordrid

[Vidgal]

Wish it were that simple, but I've been there and done that -- several times. I have set the cam to every possible audio format / mic setting variation and it only goes from bad to worse. Guess the answer is simple -- the sound on this camcorder sucks. Don't know if it is true of all of them in this model (VL-WD650U) or whether it's just my unit, but I do know what Sharp won't do anything about it. My only choices are to get rid of it or go someplace other than Sharp's "service" center and try to see if there really is something wrong that can be fixed.

Beware of Sharp -- 'cause they ain't!

[Dr Mordrid]

I try to stick with Panasonic, Canon or Sony.

Dr. Mordrid

[Vidgal]

Yes, Doc, I should have known better myself. From now on, I stick with the big three. I would love to have a Panasonic DV-601, if I can find one locally. I think I am also done with internet shopping. If something goes wrong, you are pretty much hosed. If I can't find a 601 in my budget, I may be able to find a Canon ZR20 series. I think I'd even be better off with a Sony D8 than this thing I have, especially if I can find last year's model. Then if I go mini dv later on, I'll already have the conversion device and won't have to worry about that part, plus I could sell my Hi8. My Hi8 is a Sharp. It has never given me any trouble, but I just don't want to look at that Sharp name anymore.

Thought I was old enough to know the difference between something that's a good value and something that's just cheap.

[dchip]

Vidgal, sorry about your sound situation. I don't guess trying to hook up a small external boom mic to the unit would help, or is that even an option? Even on my Canon Elura, the built-in mic does not always do the best job but there is an option to hook in an external mic for much better sound.

Doc, what I was talking about before is my guess as to why these cam's default to 12 bit setting. The manual on my Canon Elura says "use 12 bit audio on the original audio track if you plan on adding another track." So I suppose the 12 bit default is the manufacturers way of making sure the option to add a second track will be available. I wish I could find some way to override the default. I have captured 12 bit audio at several important events because I keep forgetting to set it for 16 bit.

[Vidgal]

dchip:

Would love to have a real external mike option, but it isn't available. The cam comes with a zoom mike that hooks into a hotshoe type connection on the top. However, this mike does basically nothing. If set to "zoom" mode, it will capture sound a little farther from the camera, but at the same unacceptably low volume as the internal mike. There is just something wrong with my camcorder that Sharp won't own up to. I have figured out a couple of things. Sharp -- and maybe others -- have one authorized service center per solar system in order to discourage you from having your cam serviced or repair. And, if you do send it in, I am convinced that the centers are instructed to do as little as possible. In other words, unless the unit is totally non-operational, I think they just pack it up and send it back. In short, a warranty sounds nice, but is functionally worthless.

[Dr Mordrid]

The "another track" they are talking about is typically a voiceover, which can also be added during the edit and usually with higher quality since edits are generally done with 16 bit audio.

This will be especially easy with MSPro 6.5. It allows you do do a realtime voiceover right in the editor while you're watching a preview of the project. It even lets you choose what track it records to. Just dig out your headset/mic and pretend you're Howard Cosell.

Coolness .....

Dr. Mordrid

[dchip]

Howard Cosell

The guy we all loved to hate listening to.

[Dr Mordrid]

Yup. At times I loved to listen to him (boxing), but most of the time I wanted to throw a brick at the TV (Monday Night Football)....

Dr. Mordrid