US Senate supports: "War to eradicate terrorism"

[Dr Mordrid]

The US Senate has passed a resolution with this wording unanimously. The House votes on this item later today.

This usually indicates that if the President determines a formal Declaration of War against terrorists and the states supporting them is indicated he will get it.

There is precident for a Declaration of War against an entity other than another nation. Congress handed Thomas Jefferson one targeting the Barbary pirates.

Even in the absence of a DoW this means that the President will pretty much get a blank check to pursue the targets of this investigation using whatever means he requires.

Dr. Mordrid

[hippie91]

i'm glad that everyone's behind getting these bastards, but i'm not so sure i would trust bush with a blank check

[Dr Mordrid]

Like any President his activities are with the advice and concent of Congress, who can change the rules if he abuses the privelidge. Also his National Security and State Department teams are top notch.

Dr. Mordrid

[Elie]

Let's just hope that this doesn't start WWIII
I mean it is possible.


Elie

[Sciascia]

I agree with you Doc, his staff is doing an outstanding job! I really like Cohen a lot. I was almost cheering when Rumsfeld said that he is tired of people mishandling Classified info. That is somethiing that I thought undermined our last few military actions over the years. Does the press think that Hussein and Bin Laden do not watch CNN. They have advanced warning. What about when they started talking about the Hotel. If I was involved in this, I would be glued to the tube. If I heard that the FBI ID'ed one of my people and was coming to a Hotel and I was there, I would get the hell out of there. It just is not helpful. I realize that info is imnprtant, but imagine giving advance warning to a nation, (probably days in this case). It could seriously undermine our efforts and place our already stretched military forces in harms way.

The press has done a good job of coverage, but the questioning of Bush's move in Air Force One pissed me off. It is just common sense to keep his destination secret. At theat point in time, we did not know what these people were capable of. Who thought that they would hijack 4 planes (maybe more) and do what they did. Dan Rather I thought put it best when several reporters kept focusing on it. Pretty much, drop it an d move on, if the White House said there was a threat, then believe them.

[Dr Mordrid]

Just some personal observations based on my travels today;

People old, young and in between have a very stern look on their faces, like a seething rage.

In a department store they were showing FOX news's footage of relatives who were looking for their lost ones. A group of kids, about 15-16, were watching in tears (male & female). All expressed that they want & need payback. One wanted to "nuke 'em all into to the stone age".

There isn't an American flag to be found in any store anywere in this area (suburban Detroit). Not even the tiny ones. They're cropping up everywhere on cars, homes and kids bikes.

ALL of the people I talked to express the need for us to take those countries that support terrorism to task and they don't care what it takes. I asked one guy if we shouldn't find out exactly who did it and target them selectively. He said; "HELL NO!! If we kill a few hundred thousand innocent terrorists on the way to getting those who did the deed then the world will be that much better off". Tough stuff.

The parking lot in front of the regional military recuiting office was packed.

The most heartbreaking thing I've heard was an answering machine tape played on the Mitch Album radio show (a local writer who wrote "Weekends with Bernie", a prize winning book & TV movie). The husband was asleep when his wife called from one of the towers to say goodbye and tell him she loved him. She left her expressions on the tape just before the tower collapsed. That this kind of thing happened hundreds if not thousands of times is too painful to think about.

A husband called his wife by cell phone from the hijacked plane that crashed in Pennsylvania. He told her that their plane had been hijacked and that they were going to die. He also said that the men onboard were going to try to retake the plane. They suceeded in keeping their flight from being used as a terrorist missile at the cost of their own lives.

Impressions.

The people in this country have gone through many stages in the last few days. At first we were all shocked & stunned. This moved on into anger and outrage. With the stories of the goodbye calls and the recounting of the heroism on the Pennsylvania flight this has now evolved into a seething rage that is FAR beyond even the expressions of anger by our elected officials.

I feel sorry for the SOB's that pulled this off and the counrties that supported them. The American people are preparing for, and want, revenge on a massive scale.

Dr. Mordrid

[Sciascia]

Just my feelings on this...

First off, it makes me feel good to see how many people have rallied and joined together to fight this. Especially the way the US citizens have demonstrated their patriotism, but also the internatinal community. The sad part is that other countries have been dealing with this for years (maybe not on this scale or with the media coverage). EVERYONE is subject to terrorism. It is just a shame that it had to come to this to get the ball rolling to make a difference.

I just hope that Osama Bin Ladden was wrong when he said that we don't have the heart to stick with this (indirect quote). I just hope that all people involved, Americans, and international have a longer attention span then we have demonstrated in the past. DO NOT get frustrated because we did not strike yet. We do not punish people for other's actions. We have to be reasonably sure (not 100%) that he is the person, try to detect what his counter strike will be (trust me, he didn't do this without knowing we would retaliate) and thwart it. Then we have to go through and try to find all of these f**kers that are strewn throughout the world, just doing their own thing, biding their time waiting for us to let our guard down and then BOOM!! Maybe the next day, maybe five years later. They will retalitate if we let them and it is probably going to be bigger if you can imagine that (chemical or biological).


There are 3 options to deal with this that I have heard that are flawed:

The "kill them all and let Allah sort 'em out" theory.

If we did go in there and bomb the sh*t out of Afghanistan, then we would be doing just what he did to us. Gross indifference of human life, military or civilian. Chances are he would not be killed, and if he was he'd become a martyr for the Islamic world that is undecided. If the majority of the Islam world was not behind him, then there would be a good chance that the majority would be after that. That is East against West, Islam against the infidels, Jihad (Holy war) which is just what he wants. What he really wants is one Islamic nation for all of the Arabian penisula and no westerners. I don't really think that he cares who is in charge either. You have to remember that this guy is a hero to many of them , it's like Britain saying, "give us George Wahington or it's your ass". What would we do? He has done a lot for the Islamic world, Afghanistan and Sudan just to name a few. He has also had about 30,000 soldiers go through his training camps. God only knows where the hell they are scattered.

The "just pull all of our troups out of there and cut them off from us and the rest of the world" theory.

Great plan, but two of the countries over there are nuclear powers now. Imagine Hussein or someone else taking over Pakistan or India and going nuclear. The Russians atleast were interensted in self preservation. Islamic religion says that when it is your time, it is your time. They don't really give a sh*t. I won't even get into the oil thing, since it is so insane that I can't even try to understand it. We obvious have moire interest than oil in there, so we can't just pull out.

The "lets go in there and occupy their territory, take their land and their oil" theory

Do you want to try to go over there? The Russians and British both had there asses handed to them. The terrain is rough and these people have been at some kind of war for atleast 50 years. This is their home, as much as it may suck in our opinion it is difficult to defeat someone who is defending their home. Just ask the British during the revolutionary war. Besides there are too many others floating around the world to think that occupying one or two countries is going to stop them. This would just help them to recruit more people into their ranks and back up their cause. If we got into a long drawn out, resource intensive war, then other countries, i.e., North Korea, Iraq may make a move. We have to be extremeley prudent here. We are already stretched pretty thin, don't push it. Right now we have a "small" faction of animals trying to get some kind of reaction. We do not want to help them in recruiting by making an unpopular move. Instead of a few terrorists, we end up with several nations at war. Not smart.

Our best bet is to do exactly what we (the US gov't and the rest of the civilized world) are doing and that is to build a coallition. Either you're in or you're out. If we have the support and understanding of other Islam nations then that would help alot. Remember, even if we killed him or blew up all of Afghanistan, there are a sh*tload of factions and radicals out there waiting. These people are dedicated and patient. No TV, internet, or football to distract them. They have dedicated their lives to the word of Muhammed and that is all. They have nothing but time and this is all that they have to do until they die.

This is not an atack by a country, but a small group of radicals. We do not have the right to destroy an entire nation or race because of the actions of a few people. This has a name, it's called ethnic cleansing. I think that we just stopped someone from doing this. Now if he is state sponsored (and I would not be surprised), then deal with it accordingly. But until we find out, then we have to be just and abide by our morals and principles. How would you feel if we wiped out millions in Afghanistan to find out that Iran or Iraq was behind it? I wouldn't be surprised if it was someone else and they left a trail to make it look like Bin Ladden. These people were form a lot of different countries. They were just sloppy enough to make it look like they weren't trying to leave clues. Instigate a war and then make their move. Bin Ladden is not the only terrorist or terrorist sponsor in the world that does not like the US. I think that Hussein is still a little irritated after the Gulf War and Iran doesn't send us Christmas cards anymore.

We also have to keep in mind what Osama bin Ladden has done for his Islamic brothers and why he is so popular. He was born into a wealthy family and sacrificed an easy life for Islam. He went to Afghanistan to fight the Russians and helped to drive them out. Many feel that he did this because of his desire to practice his "Jihad". From what I read, there are 2 types, the personal fight against sin, i.e., drinking, gambling, whatever, then there is the actual practice of fighting a holy war for Allah. He then went back home to Saudi and warned the Royal family of an attack by Hussein. He had a plan to fight him off and was rejected, they decided to have the US come in. He spoke out against the family and was put under house arrest. He snuck out to Sudan and helped to build a bunch of stuff. He was to be repaid $150 Million that he invested and only got about $10 million back. He was then kicked out (pressure form the US) and went back to Afghanistan to seek asylum (very sacred) from the Taliban. He has a considerable amount of trained troops that have been fighting the Northern Alliance and has a lot of pull with younger people in Afghanistan. This is where the national hero thing comes into play. He is like their George Wahington. They also say that he is very charismatic and caring to his troops. He is a great leader, whether we like to admit it or not. Hitler was a great leader too, so that doesn't make him right. We also didn't help when we went over there to help train these people, supply them with weapons and when they succeeded we just forgot about them. We then leveed sanctions for various reasons and most of them do not know why nor care. They feel like we only care about the oil in the region and not them. We also know that Jews and Muslims do not play well together. They know that the US and Isreal are allies, so they when see Isreal killing Palestinians (other Muslims), they get angry. Right or wrong, they don't like it. All they have for media is what their gov't tells them. Not like here, it is state run and operated and more of a means of delivering propaganda then "on the spot news coverage" from an unbiased source. If they tried to be as critical of their gov't as we are, they would be killed.

Now I know that I am going to get flamed for this next part. One reason that this happened and nobody knew about it is directly contributed to the whiny bastards about privacy and inconvenice. Especially concerning phone taps and the internet, email, whatever. If the NSA, FBI, CIA and what other agency didn't have their hands tied by people who are paranoid then they could be more effective. Why the hell are people so worried about someone reading their email or something? Do you think that the FBI is concerned about your silly little life and stupid little habits? (Not meant to insult those with silly little lifes and stupid habits). They are more concerned about protecting us from this kind of stuff. Do you think that they would send out a SWAT team to your house because you emailed someone the serial number to Quake 3? They don't care and have too much other stuff to worry about.

All that I have to say is be ready to give up a little freedom, not a lot. Actually freedom is not the right word, it's convenience. The first time that I hear someone whining about waiting two hours to get through airport security I am going to punch them. Its the whiny bastards, the McDonalds, I want it now and the customer is always right attitude that makes us easy targets. People are so worried about getting fired or sued for insulting someone by accident that if they did try to stop one of these terrorists in the airport, all they had to do was start threatening a lawsuit and they'd probably be on their way with an apology from a security manager.

Continued in next post...

[Sciascia]

Continued

The US has been hamstrung by bullsh*t lawsuits, and been castrated by this "politically correct" sh*t for too long. If I think that you are f**king up, then I'm gonna call you on it. If it turns out that you aren't, then move on and don't whine, I'll even apologize. If I didn't care then I wouldn't check. If you don't have anyting to hide, then be helpful. If you do have something to hide, then I guess that you're f**ked. Maybe you shouldn't be doing it.

I just pray to God that we do not get tired of this "war on terrorism" and get complacent again. If we don't make a unified, wholehearted and continuous statement then we are just putting the "punk ass bitch" sign on our country and inviting anyone else to do this to us. Remember, Muslims are not the only people in the world with "bad people". Timothy McVeigh for godsake was one of "us". We don't want to let this become a popular method of getting one's point across. We have to be vigilent and supportive of our President and those appointed to protect our country. We have to be serious and dedicated, this is not going away anytime soon. We have to prove that we are not the products of a microwaveable, 30 minutes or your money back, short attention span society or all that we hold dear and true is in jeopary.

There is only one way to deal with this. It is a big sh*t sandwich and everyone is going to have to take a bite. Hope you packed a toothbrush...

By the way Doc, I love the flag! God Bless America!

[KRSESQ]

Scaiscia:

You've hit the proverbial nail on the head with your analysis.

A quibble though:

Quote: "The terrain is rough and these people have been at some kind of war for atleast 50 years."

More like 5000 years or more. The middle east represents the single most concentrated and consistant center for human conflict on the planet.

The epicenter has historically been Israel/Palestine, for the simple reason that it is the only land route between Africa and Asia. The trade caravans moving through the region meant fabulous riches to whoever controlled that route.

Now, of course, the land route is irrelevant because most of the trade between Africa and the rest of the world travels by sea and air. People continue to fight over the region more out of habit than anything else. Religious and political differences just make convenient excuses.

None of this makes our job any easier because violence has become so deeply ingrained into their culture. People think we Yanks are so violent because of the Second Amendment and our own national history (much to be ashamed of, to be sure). But we're dilettantes compared to them.

I know I'm probably inviting a flame for sounding bigoted. That is certainly not my intention. My deepest hope is that the peace-loving people of that part of the world can overcome the haters and help bring this kind of distructive hatred to an end.

Kevin

[Dr Mordrid]

Guys,

This war will be both conventional and UN-conventional. As such the moves may go in several new directions, some found useful in the governments fight against organized crime. We may even see some new technologies;

1. make it "worthwhile" for host states to turn on the terrorist groups in their territory. Basically, you deal with them or we will. Given the choice of us taking out their military assets on our way to destroying the terrorist training & base camps most dictatorships will opt to keep their toys and do it themselves.

2. freezing the monetary assets of both the terrorist groups and their benefactors, who are mainly gulf state businessmen with radical politics. Most international banks are in line and those who refuse to cooperate may find themselves unable to do transactions at all.

3. sealing the borders of the surrounding states. This could include shutting down all shipping and air transport to states who continue to support or ignore terrorist hubs in their territories. Since our President gave an order to shoot down our own airliners I don't think a cargo plane would matter. No, none were shot down by our fighters as *someone* called Langley Field instead of Edwards AFB and it took 'em too long to get there.

4. assasination. Our rules against assasination are not, as some assume, laws. They were the result of an executive order imposed by the Ford administration in the '70's and only applies to heads of State or government officers. As such it doesn't prevent the assasination of the head of a non-governmental entity like a terrorist or the officers of a terrorist cell. It also doesn't stop any President from recinding the executive order all together.

5. special ops. The Navy SEALS, Black Berets, Delta Force and Britains SAS will be busy here. Think in terms of #4 and actions targeting disruption and confusion.

6. shutting down their communications. Easy enough if they have their gear turned on. Just set off an EMP bomb within miles of them and fry their electronic gear. They'll have a hard time getting spare parts once the backups are used up. No comm, no fun.

7. when we find a concentration of material or personnel, go in and kill it.

If it/they are bunkered or in caves earth penetrating warheads can get anything down to 200 feet. Locating targets can be done with a relatively new technology: earth penetrating radar imaging. The ordinance can be delivered by missile, cruise missile or bombers. These charges are also smart in that they can be precisely targeted by GPS or laser based on the info obtained by the radar data.

Surface structures can be taken out with the new generation of cruise missiles. These can deliver FAE's (chemical vapor explosives with tactical nuke sized power) or they can deliver several payloads to different targets. In this mode the first few can be hit with cluster charges, basically thousands of charges blanketing a large area. It's like hitting them with B-52's but without the airplane. Once these are delivered the main warhead (conventional, earth penetrating etc.) is delivered to a last target.

9. Intel can be done with ROV's (remote operated vehicles) for intel and attack and you have a whole new battlefield. These can be stealthy aircraft or surface vehicles and have been in the inventory since Desert Storm. The new ones can be deployed in the field easily and are very light and quiet.

10. individual building might be attacked with Robot Swarm. This is a remotely operated vehicle that can break into a building. Once there it discharges a swarm of at least 100 guided robots, each one armed with various weapons systems. A single soldier can control any group behaviors necessary to the mission or they can be put on auto. Robot Swarm can also be used for risk free de-mining in the absence of minesweeping armor.

Most forces faced with Robot Swarm will bail out in a hurry.

11. word is that the new Land Warrior electronic battlefield management system may be used by some special ops guys. These guys look like heavily armed BORG's complete with flipdown headset mounted eyepiece that has normal light, starlight and infrared capability.

The eyepiece is connected to both a battlefield computer that keeps each soldier in contact with the command post and their own platoon members and a cam in their guns scope. It allows them to shoot around corners without exposing themselves by aiming with the eyepiece. Hmmm.....wonder if it could eventually incorporate guided bullets? Thesecan steer themselves to follow a laser identified target.

Robot Swarm is only mentioned in DARPA documents, and then only briefly.

Guided bullet patent;

http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='5,788,178'.WKU.&OS=PN/5,788,178&RS=PN/5,788,178

Robot Swarm and the guided bullets remind me of the old movie "Runaway".

12. some troops may get the new OICW (objective individual combat weapon), aka: Alliant SABRE It's an over/under gun with a 5.56 mm NATO assault barrel on the bottom and a 20 mm cannon on top. What makes it unusual is the targeting sight for the cannon. Its laser rangefinder can be targeted on the enemies cover. This information then allows the soldier to shoot OVER the cover with the shell's timed fuse air-bursting it directly over the enemy.

And then there are the persistant rumors in military circles about the development of a practical metamorphic camoflage for both personnel and small vehicles. Does the movie "Predator" ring a bell?

All of this without using "normal" standing armies.

Dr. Mordrid