Anyone using a P4?

[Nethermancer]

To encode to divx. What sort of frame rate do you get? Is it worth buying a M/B base on the new VIA P4 chipset or are the old VIA problems still there? Does the built in sound solve the SBLive issues? Come to think of it does anyone know if the Audigy solves those problems (PCI hogging etc)? Thanks.

[Dr Mordrid]

If the encoder in question is SSE2 enabled (ex: WM7 is) then the P4 will render video about 1.75 - 2.0 times as fast as a similarly clocked Athlon. More and more encoders are coming out with SSE2 compatability all the time.

The Palamino won't do much to change this as it's only going to have SSE1 + the existing Advanced 3DNow!. It'll get some boost, but not that much.

As far as setting up a P4 system goes I'd wait until the new socket 478 CPU's and i845 SDRAM chipsets come out.

I wouldn't trust VIA chipsets as far as I could throw a bus until their reformation is confirmed from several sources.

I have no idea about how the Audigy will operate, but given Creatives history over the last few years I wouldn't buy one until someone else has consumer-beta'ed it in their system for a few months

A more immediate solution for PCI bus hogging audio cards is the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz. VERY low resource use and it sounds great.

Dr. Mordrid

[Rob100]

Dr M - 478 pin P4's and 845 based boards (such as ASUS P4B or Abit BL7) are available now.

I was "considering" getting one to tinker with myself... Hmm, but I've just seen someone with a TYAN Tiger MP Dual Athlon Motherboard in stock... Although a bit pricey I could put 2 x 1.4 gig TBirds on this for a lot less than a 2 gig P4 and mobo.

Rob.

[LvR]

Nethermancer

I am running a 478pin 1.7G on an Intel D845HV motherboard using onboard sound (Soundmax) and all is well.

I have seen the same cpu running on an Asus and Gigabyte 845 based board as well with the same results.

What do you mean "To encode to divx. What sort of frame rate do you get?" ? What source material/sw do you propose to use as a yardstick?

When I need material in Divx, I am able to capture using AVI_IO with the proper framesize (352x288) and compressor (DivX401) settings at 25 f/s, with a dropped framerate of about 20 per hour depending on the quality of the material - but then again that is hardly spectacular - my old Piii 900 used to do that as well

WP7 Simply refuse to capture video for me - I keep getting black video with good audio on my 450eTV.

[droopy]

@ALL

Hmmm, I have a question I would like to ask you all.

I see here that the 845 is recommended by a few. All tests I've read so far though tell me to stay away from the 845. Simply because it is like putting a Ferrari engine in a Citroen 2CV. You've got great power under the hood with the P4, but can't use it. If you really like the P4 I would think to wait until that bloody idiotic warning of Intel to manufacturers is lifted so they can start using the DDR support of the 845. At least that's better then the SDRAM. Via already has the P4X266, but Intel filed charges against them. I have to agree with Dr Mordrid though that Via's reputation is not to good with regard to chipsets. Their KT266A chipset looks very good though, also with Soundblaster Live's. Independant tests on several major sites have shown that the Thunderbird 1.4 overclocked with a KT266A outperforms the P4 2.0 in the important areas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Especially with the Abit boards it's interesting as they now have a feature where overclocking is possible without changing the PCI bus. So no overclocked USB interfaces, AGP or PCI cards.

Anyway, I'm just trying to say that it is not as simple as it looks.

For my money though, the next will not be a Pentium anymore. Even though it has served me well for the last 5 to 6 years. I'd go for a Palomino 1.6 or 1.7, although it does not have SSE2. Which should be released in the coming 2 to 3 months. An ABit board with KT266A and DDR memory. The money I keep in my pocket I'll spend with my friends in the bar getting loaded, or maybe on a RT2000 / 2500. The only glitch is, the Palomino prices don't look promising.

Just my 2 cents, I know it has nothing to do with the original subject though. But where did that initial question go?????

Regards

[Dr Mordrid]

SDRAM vs. DDR issues aside;

Those highly touted AMD vs. P4 benchmarks are not really *real*.

This is because the testing was done on benchmarks and 3D/2D software that were NOT optimized for use with the P4. As such it's not being used to its best effect.

Apples & oranges.

When benchmarks and software are used that have been compiled by Intels latest P4 aware compiler then things change drastically.

Basically we're in the same situation as when the original MMX was the standard and SSE (remember when it was called MMX-2?) had just come out on the PIII's. It took a while for software to come out optimized for them, but once it did no one argued which was better.

Now...for the validity of using 3D benchmarks to gleen an insight into potential video performance. There isn't any.

3D rendering is mostly a CPU centered operation mainly done in small data packets fed through the FPU. This favors the Athlon with its slightly faster FPU.

Video, however, favors a system geared towards streaming large chunks of data. This favors the P4 platform whose archetecture sports a faster bus with wider and more efficient data paths.

And lets not forget that rendering of all kinds becomes faster on a P4 once compilers and code are optimized to use SSE2. This because SSE2 has single commands whose functions would otherwise require several passes through the FPU using conventional coding.

As for RDRAM's throughput being a requirement for the P4 to shine, not really. Most of its advantages are theoretical and haven't materialized in the real world.

Most real world benchmarks show DDR to be at least as fast as RDRAM in *real world* thorughput. IF RDRAM does show any advantages they are minor. With quad-pumped DDR in the pipeline I don't see this changing any time soon.

Now, to throw some gas on the fire;

"San Jose -- Intel has always promised that the Pentium 4 could scale to super-high clock speeds. To back up the claim, Intel officials on Tuesday showed off a next-generation Pentium 4 running at 3.5GHz.

The hyper-clocked P4 was based on the upcoming "Northwood" core. Northwood, which many expect to be released later this year, marks Intel's transition to a 0.13-micron process technology for its flagship desktop processor."

and

"AMD announced Tuesday that it will lay off 2,300 workers by the end of the second quarter of 2002--or 15 percent of its work force--and close two fabrication facilities. "

Dr. Mordrid

[Nethermancer]

I seem to have opened a can of worms here. I saw the review at Anandtech of the new VIA DDR P4 board and it seemed to be on a par with the 850i. I also heard that their next chipset (released in 2 months) supports ATA133 and USB 2.0. Is it worth getting an 845i board when DDR equivelants are available. Speaking of which has anyone seen reviews from the board manufacturers which Intel has licensed which support DDR.

Basically what I'm asking is should I buy a DDR p4 chipset now or wait until next year for one with Intels blessing.

And if anyone has any framerates on a P4 - say Virtualdub or Flask at about 512x384 as a reference point it would be interesting to comapre Athlon vs. P4 as the latest Flask has all the optimisations. Thanks.

[LvR]

An apple, an apple - My kingdom for an apple !

Screw benchmarks - they can be made to simulate optimum (or the worst) performance of any aspect of any piece of hardware given enough time and enough fools to interpret it.

DDR+845 is in the pipeline - Intel did say that - they are waiting to see where the DDR and RDR war is going I bet!

Lawrence
-------------
Intel D845HV mobo,bios 01,INF 310.1009, ATA610.011, P4-1.7G, 640M SD133,
ACPI W2KPro+SP2,Mplayer6.4,IE5.5+SP2,DirectX8.0a + the 2 video patches,
450 eTV 16M AGP running 4x AGP,Yamaha CRW2100E CDRW.
Boot/progs : Dedicated 20G WD200BB
Capture : Dedicated Raid 0, Iwill Sideraid 100 (Highpoint370) with 2 40G WD400BB's
Swapfile 600M fixed : Dedicated 20G WD200BB
Stock standard onboard audio (Soundmax) - All in PALi.

[Dr Mordrid]

Naw....they'll sell both types of chipsets and just drop the losers support cold

Dr. Mordrid

[LvR]

Thats why I am running SDR now - the future will dictate the correct decision and where to go to next

[LvR]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/21895.html

[ALBPM]

Have no fear Intel will have DDR support


"SOON"!!!!!!!!!!

Paul

[DJ]

When Paul speaks, everybody listens!!!


DJ

[Dr Mordrid]

Marketing forces alone mandate that they do DDR. Lots of folks won't pay the inflated prices for RDRAM and a bunch of others won't buy it on principle alone.

Dr. Mordrid

[wkulecz]

Not buying RDRAM on principle alone? what would that be?

I sure don't see any evidence that RDRAM is anywhere near its 3X price premium over SDRAM and its 10% at best speedup over DDR RAM is for most people clearly not worth its 2X price premium.

But in absolute $, for 512MB of RAM RDRAM is what, ~$100 more than DDR RAM last time I looked. Is this worth the potential hassles of a buying Via motherboard chipset??

I wouldn't bet the farm on a DDR chipset from Intel. I'd like to see it, but "faster & cheaper" RDRAM is supposed to be in the pipline from Samsung for the 533MHz bus P4's due nest year.

Basically I'm sticking with what I have until some of this dust settles. I've setup P4 I850 RDRAM systems for others simply because they were the best "bang/buck" on a particular weekend's specials at Fry's.

I won't be upgrrading to XP "on principle" because of WPA which presumes everyone who buys it is a crook (we'll leave the suggestion that everyone that buys windows is a chump for another day) and will cause me major grief when upgrading and troubleshooting. I'm sure my next Notebook will have XP, but WPA doesn't (shouldn't) matter there.

--wally.