Entry level camcorder?

[Duty]

I am looking for a nice camcorder to play with. My price range is 3-4 hundred. What is a good entry level camera? Also what is CCD? Do I want a camera with CCD and why do some have 3 CCD?

Jeff

[Greebe]

On the lower end of the spectrum I'm clueless. But CCD stands for charge coupled device. There are other types but they are only used in very high end/speciality stuff (like infrared cameras etc).

Cameras that use three do so to improve resolution, sensitivity and color saturation. One for each primary color. These are actually monochromic and use a gelatin type filter to blockout out the unwanted wavelengths. Also used in higher end stuff.

[mynx]

In that price range you remove the posibility of 3 CCD camcorders and digital. This leaves VHS-C and 8mm. For use with computer and video editing this leaves no choice, 8mm. I would recommend a Hi8 camcorder. Stereo mics are not important as they are so close together it usually won't matter. An external LCD panel is very convienent(sp?) for preparing to digitize. I would say Sony or Canon depending on which features you want and what price. Canon are very dependable but harder to find service if it is needed. Sony are the next best and it easy to find somewhere to service them. However Sony's new bottom loading mechanism is very cumbersome and can cause problems if you plan to use a tripod.

[wkulecz]

Possability of digital is not completely removed.

I picked up a miniDV Canon ZR10 refurb (still get factory warrenty) from Fry's for $395 a couple of weeks ago. Its physically very small, I got for those times I "don't want to lug around a camcorder."

Quite qood, if a little weak in low light.

--wally.

[Dr Mordrid]

Many low end cams are a bit weak in low light, but the Panasonic PV-DV400 is an older model that is still in stores that does well in low light. It also has IR filters. I have one as one of my backup cams and it works very nicely.

Dr. Mordrid

[Brian Ellis]

If poss, go for a mini-DV rather than a Hi-8, even if it costs a few bucks more. You won't regret the difference, even at the bottom of the market and you won't be lumbered with an obsolescent format which will disappear from the market within a year or two. Also, if you wish to upgrade with a trade-in, your tapes will be compatible (Yes, I know that Hi-8 tapes are compatible on D8, but the future of this format may not be long and rosy, either). I was in China over the last 2 weeks and, on the way home I had a look in the photoshops in Hong Kong airport. Nearly all camcorders there were mini-DV: I think I saw only 2 or 3 D8s. Chatted with a salesperson and saw a dream Panasonic camera - too expensive for me to support wifey's ire - and was told the market for D8s was dropping there.

[wkulecz]

Believeing what is told by sales clerks in Hong Kong is a sure road to ruin IMHO.

Its easy to see how D8 could be a tough sell outside regions where Hi8 is well established. D8 may die, so might DV. If you have existing Hi8 tapes D8 makes a lot of sense as your first digital camcorder, if you don't, it doesn't. Hi8 is clearly dieing out, but its cheap now which is want he needs. I know quite a few folks who have miniDV cams and are buying Sony GV 200 or GV 800 D8 "watchman decks" for archiving projects on cheaper D8 tape. I'm considering joining them since there are new 90 minute D8 tapes that give ~135 minutes in LP mode. D8 could evolve to nicely fill a need here if miniDV decks don't drop a lot in price, and soon.

I've never seen a D8 (new, closeout or refurb) offered for what I paid for my refurb Canon ZR10 miniDV. We're trying to make the point that digital may not really be out of his price range if he shops carefully. I think either miniDV or D8
is a better choice right now than Hi8, but Hi8 is a lot better than nothing! (or VHS!)

I've seen really cheap (~$200) SVHS-C camcorders, but the tapes are expensive (when you can find them), only hold ~20 minutes and it doesn't have a digitally compatible upgrade path. OTOH SVHS captured via a DV pass-thru (Sony DVMC-DA2, etc.) is very nice and as Doc so often points out is better for blue screen work, and making MPEGs, if you are willing to hassle with analog 4:2:2 capture.

Many of the Canon (my ZR10 included), Sony and JVC miniDV camcorders have "clumsy" bottom loading tape transports that interfere with using a tripod.

--wally.

[Duty]

Thanks everyone, I think I have enough to do some real searching. I just had no direction before.

One last question before I go a spending. Is the CCD a nice addition or should I look at it as a requirement if it is in my price range?

Jeff

[Brian Ellis]

All low-cost cameras have 1 CCD. 3 CCD models are way out of your price range but are nice! (I use one). So, I'm afraid, your question is not relevant.

Look at it this way. If you have a chemical cine camera, Kodachrome is the equivalent of a single CCD. The original Technicolor camera used the same double dichroic beam-splitting technique and 3 separate monochrome films as a 3 CCD model. Result: superior resolution and much better colour info for a single given CCD size and type.

[Duty]

Cool thanks.


Jeff

[Duty]

Well after listening to the great advice I went straight out a ignored it. Actually, I found, what I think to be a great deal. I was looking around the internet and local stores and found this camcorder for $399.99 After checking the specs against other similar camcorders I went and picked it up. So far I love it. I never thought I would be able to get a miniDV camcorder. I just picked up a creative Audigy to go with it. I needed a fire wire port and that just seemed like a great deal. I realize that this might not have the same quality of the Canon and Sony camcorders but this should do better then any of the Hi8 camcorders I was looking to get.

There are a few features that the web page does not mention, like 2 audio modes 12/16 bit, cats eye mode, mic connection, serial connection for still pics, manual Focus, exposure, white balance and shutter speed. There is more but I don't have the manual in here in my office. I am really feeling lucky about finding this deal.

After I get it all set up I'll drop back with a note to how well it works out. Thanks for all your help. Oh, I forgot to mention that I got the camcorder at Costco.



Jeff

[Brian Ellis]

Looks like good value

[Vidgal]

Duty:

Hope you have better luck with Sharp than I did. The picture was very good, but I bought the VL-WD650U and found the sound reproduction unacceptable. The sound not only played back low on the internal speaker, but seemed to capture low as well. The zoom mike seemed to do nothing. I hope you are aware that the mike jack is for the Sharp zoom mike only and will not work with anything else. I sent my unit for service and they said there was nothing wrong with it. I couldn't believe the sound would be that poor and remain convinced there may have been something wrong with this unit. At any rate, I returned it. You should check the sound capture out carefully before your return period runs out.