MPEG 1 2 or 4?

[pjpm]

Which MPEG has the best quality/resolution for outputing to VHS?

[Walrus]

Until I hear of a way of doing interlaced video with an implementation of MPEG-4, I would say your best bet for BEST quality is interlaced MPEG-2 at high resolutions and high variable bitrates.

[Brian Ellis]

Certainly not 4, since MS have departed from the standards.

However, if you are using Marvel or RR to record to VHS, you should us MJPEG.

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Brian (the terrible)

[pjpm]

Thanks Folks

I'm using a G400 Max with an RRG but find I get better quality input and output with Mediastudio 5 than Premier 4.2 & 5.1? Any thoughts. Also would I be any better of buying a digital card, ie would inputing digital give me better output results to VHS.

Manny Thanks
Paul

[Walrus]

pjpm:
Not sure about the media studio vs Premiere issues (I rarely use any of them). As for DV vs MJPEG, in theory DV's compression is a little more advances and less prone to artifacting, but Brian Ellis is correct, if you capture full resolution, lowest compression MJPEG and do your editing/etc, and then output that back to VHS, it should be pretty much indistinguishable from the source. There are better methods, but I seriously doubt one can tell the difference on a VHS tape with its limited resolution.

[James Macnicol]

Brian,
Why do you say that the Microsoft version deviates from the standard? I assume the version they ship is derived from the code they have contributed to MPEG that is being used to verify the standard itself (which is obviously not "non-standard" in any way). BTW, I know that code supports interlace but I guess they could've removed it from the stuff they offer for free download.

[Walrus]

James Macnicol: Microsoft is deviating from standards in a number of ways. I beleive the final spec hasn't even been released yet for MPEG-4, so by virtue of that alone, they are deviating. More importantly, the final spec I believe will use Quicktime as its packaging format, so that is another key way it is deviating. However, most importanly, Microsoft has been deviating with their own standards by revising their codecs to make them incompatible with earlier versions (take a look at MPEG-4 v3). MPEG-4 is interesting.. though the compatibility issues are pretty bad IMHO, and VBR MPEG-1 is often a better solution.

[wkulecz]

I've done the output to VHS tape comparisons.

Original Digital8 tape as the source.

reference tape:
Camcorder analog out to VHS SP mode, this looks as good as any VHS tape I've ever seen, VHS tape is the limitation here. I think most anyone could see the difference of this VHS tape played back to the NTSC monitor vs. the camcorder analog output displayed directly on the monitor.

MJPEG:
Capture MJPEG "best quality" with G200 Marvel and output clip to tape with MSPro5.2 timeline. Other than some color calibration issues, it would be difficult to pick this tape from the reference tape. With the analog SIMA SCC "color corrector" box on the Marvel's output I can make a VHS tape that many people would pick as "slightly better" than the reference tape straight from the D8. Never tried recording the D8 thru the SCC box.

DV:
Direct firewire capture with the Pyro. Output from "smart rendered" DV clip back thru firewire and recorded on VHS tape via the D8 camcorder analog output using MSPro6.0. I'd doubt anyone could reliably pick this from the reference tape. No color calibration issues is the big plus. The bigger minus is DV and cheap firewire boards are not there yet due to bugs in the Microsoft DV codec -- poor quality on re-rendered DV, far before the 5 or 6 generations DV is supposed to be cabable of, audio sync starts to slip after about 5 minutes, "static-like" noise is superimposed on the audio once you cross the 2GB size on an output. Also no timeline DV playback so you have to render making the above problems, IMHO, a show stopper.

So at present, I'm with Brian, MJPEG is still the format for output to VHS unless you've got at least $500 or more to spend on a DV Raptor or better, but you still aren't likely to end up with better VHS tapes, so the justification will have to be workflow improvements and/or color calibration issues.

--wally.