MSP6.5 DVD plugin producing bad streams?

[wkulecz]

I finally made a disk that plays back without glitches.

I took an 8000 VBR mpeg2 file encoded with MSP6.5 and authored it with MyDVD. Took longer than DVD plugin to author, but was tolerable (I'e never timed either, both are slow so I go do something else). Running time ~50min. MyDVD stinks, I could only have a single chapter since I had only a single mpeg2 file, but the important thing is I got glitch free playback on my Zenith and Apex players. The Zenith was glitching 2-3 times per hour's worth of video, and the Apex 8-10 times per hour on MSP6.5 DVD plugin authored disks. I've watched it twice on the Apex, once on the Zenith.

All is not right though, the MyDVD authored disk broke FF/REV on the APEX FF only works 2X instead of 2,4,6,8 and REV just freezes. APEX FF/REV works perfectly on MSP6.5 authored disks.
FF/REV on the Zenith appears to work correctly thru its 2-100X range with both authorings. No real test of MyDVD chapters since the bundled version can only produce one chapter per file.

Media was Mitsui, cheapest I could find, but often named as "cheap media responsible for playback glitches" by some on rec.video.desktop, since I'd used all the Apple brand 5-PK and one "noname" disk permuting VBR, CBR and SeqHeader settings.

I'd sent this info (after only a single viewing on the APEX) to Ulead as a problem report last week before I went to Budapest, but after registering to submit it, I've got no response, other than three SPAM Emails trying to sell me something :-(

I'm setting up the HP DVD100i now, so watch this space! Since the disk are resuable, it won't be so expensive to permute the possibilities. First thing I will try (assuing the bundled software supports image burns) will be to burn the MSP6.5 authored VBR 5500 SeqHeader=1 image.

Doc, you might pass this info on to your contacts at Ulead as it appears their MSP6.5 DVD plugin has some serious problems.

I'd strongly advise against buying the DVD factory thing until this issue is resolved. If DVD factory fixes the problem they damn well better get a patch out quick to fix MSP6.5 DVD plugin.

--wally.

[wkulecz]

I didn't think it possible ...

but the version of MyDVD bundled with the HP DVD100i is even worse than the POS bundled with the A03.

Undo crashed it losing all work.
One file = one "chaper button" no choice of thumbnail frame.
Can't set multiple chapter points in a file.
Can't re-arrange the play order.
Multiple file selections are inconsistant, either setting "buttons" in reverse order or alphabetized depending on if the six button per menu border has been crossed or not. How they screwed up the standard file selection dialog so it takes ~30 seconds everytime you start it is beyond me. Doesn't remember anything about where your last choice came from so choosing files one at a time to get the order right is way too tedious. Apparently no way to burn from an image file.

This is so bad, I've downloaded the Ulead DVD Factory free trial and if it can't actually burn a DVD+RW I won't even bother trying to do a test burn before returning the damn thing. I don't care if the burned disks are 100% compatible with every DVD player ever made, this software is so bad it still would not be worth it. Wait for OEM versions with no software to hit the market and decent third party DVD authoring to be released.

Unbelievable HP would bundle this crap, HP used to stand for quality products, clearly not any longer.

--wally.

[AndrewDV]

Hi Wally,

I fell for the gimics and bought DVD Factory. It was mainly purchased for the menu ability. In general, Ulead's solution is pretty good for making VCD/SVCD (don't have a DVD burner). The biggest pain with the plug-in was that I could not make compilations easily. It only accepted 1 mpeg file.

Anyway, my initial reaction is that not much has changed. I do like the new menu features (background sound, more than 1 mpeg file, multi-level menus). From what I can tell, there are more templates as well (use PhotoExpress to make your own).

Also, I played around with triming MPEGs with it. For a quick and dirty trim-up, it is not too shabby.

I have not tried the MPEG capture. One would assume it is pretty much the same as the DVD Plug-in with the power patch.

FYI, there is also a trimed down version of PhotoExpress with it. They give this to you for creating CD-labels. Not a real bene if you already have the latest version.

[wkulecz]

I've made a DVD+RW with the DVD Factory Trial. Spit out by one player, glitched very badly on another. Both almost play DVD-R so I'd say at this point DVD+RW is not our answer either.

I'm burning a lame single chapter authoring to DVD+RW to see if compatability using the bundled MyDVD software is as bad. Also the DVD Factory image is being burned to DVD-R so I can test if compatability is improved over the MSP6.5 DVD plugin.

Stay tuned.

I think the DVD Factory needs more work before I'd buy it.
The change thumbnail selector is brain dead -- the slider moves in % of file length increments, Ulead wasn't clever enough to use autorepeat on the keyboard for single frame advance, nor let other keys advance in useful units like seconds, 10s of seconds etc. A simple "play pause" from the default thumbnail position would be better or enter another time for thumbnail frame at the chapter point. I think its stupid to always name the image dvd_udf.iso. Despite these faults it two orders of magnitude better than MyDVD two bundled flavors.

--wally.

[wkulecz]

DVD+RW is not the "more compatible" DVD burner we're waiting for!

Didn't have to watch long to see it glitch.

Unlike the case with the A03 DVD-R, authoring the MSP6.5 created mpeg2 file with the bundled MyDVD did not playback glitch free on the Zenith that has ~2-3 glitches/hour on DVD plugin authored disks and played the MyDVD authored disk glitch free.

The DVD Factory Trial image is about done in the A03, I'm off to Fry's to return the HP DVD100i.

--wally.

[BrianP]

This may seem rhetorical, but didn't you determine with your A03 tests that MyDVD was crap, and that the MSP encoding was flaky?

How were the results on the DVD100i going to be any different? (Granted, they actually sound worse, so that bit of information is in itself illuminating.)

MyDVD is the bottom of the barrel for authoring. Just because it is bundled with these drives doesn't legitimize it in my eyes -- I would much rather see tests done using SpruceUp or DVDit.

[wkulecz]

Executive Sumary.

It does indeed get confusing!

It's hard to be sure exactly who is to blame, but falling back to using only what came bundled with the burner wasn't completely practical for the A03 as after 3 days transcoding 45 min of DV still wasn't complete on a PIII-500.

The HP bundle is worse and less fuctional, but it did create a disk from straignt DV files in a very reasonable amount of time (seemed faster than MSP6.5) but the encoded quality was poor and DVD+RW glitched badly in my Zenith, much worse and more frequently that with DVD-R while the Apex wouldn't even accept the disk.

So with MyDVD I "authored" the single ~1hr mpeg2 file encoded with MSP6.5 to a disk. Since this disk did play glitch free in both my Zenith and Apex I tend to conclude the MSP6.5 mpeg2 encoding is OK, but the DVD plugin authoring gets something wrong. DVD Factory Trial authoring has the same problems.

Encoding in MSP6.5, Authoring in MyDVD, and Burning with Prassi would be a tedious work-around except for the fact that the MyDVD authored disk, while playing back glitch free, broke FF/REV on the APEX! Also one chapter point per file is just not workable for me. Note that DVD plugin FF/REV and navigation all work as expected on both players, were it not for the playback glitches I'd say we had winner, since most (~90%?) of the players Circut City had in stock would play the DVD-R, the problem is only ~20% would do so without glitching :-(

I will make a multi file disk with MyDVD to test navigation before I return the A03 (The vendor is being a pill about issuing an RMA so I've had to dispute the charge with my credit card company, thus I'm stuck with it a bit longer, so I'll waste a few more $$$ on blanks to learn what I can).

Since I needed another 1394 card I picked up a Pinnacle ExpressDVD card which is bundled with Pinnacle's equiv to to Ulead's DVD Factory. I'll also give this a shot. Apple DVD-R blanks at Fry's are down to $6 ea so I got another 5-pk when returning the HP DVD 100i.

--wally.

[edit]
I forgot to mention that MyDVD bundled with A03 and the version bundled with HP DVD+RW are so different in user interface and features that they should not share the same name!!!! Consipracy theorists might think it intensional to cause endless Forum and Usenet arguements so as to obscure the fact that neither device can deliver what is promised!

[BrianP]

Did any of the people that claimed to have made "glitch-free" DVD-Rs ever take you up on the offer to burn a disc that you sent them?

[wkulecz]

One did, but he had a Sony hardware assisted encoder. So I didn't think I'd really learn anything. Also, he's only tried his disks in his Panasonic player. Thats the problem with all the cheerleaders -- works in theirs so they claim it works everywhere and I must be doing something wrong.

Pioneer and HP are claiming compatability with "most" or "90%" or "all but first generation" I'm holding their feet the the fire. More players seem to spit out the HP DVD+RW than Pioneer's DVD-R (althought I've tried fewer players the absolute number of rejects is higher), so it seems clear to me HP is rushing this to market for Xmas to confuse things even more. I've already got my money back on the HP.


Remember these four key facts:

(1) I don't care a rat's ass about finding a player to play my disks, if the players bought for last and next Xmass won't play these DVD-R correctly its useless to me and certainly not worth $600. My audience is not going to buy a new player to watch my disks. YMMV.

(2) I encode in MSP6.5 because the bundled software is too slow to be useful, I haven't addressed its quality. (except for the HP which I'd call poor -- I've seen better SVCD's on CD-RW, it seemed to encode faster than MSP)

(3) Authoring this mpeg2 file with MSP6.5 DVD plugin or DVD Factory Trial yields a DVD-R with seeminly perfect FF/REV and navigation on the ~90% of the players that don't spit out the disk. But glitch free playback only happens on about 20% of the players -- apparently only some models from Pioneer, Sony & Panasonic. Thus I'm hope the problem is Ulead authoring!
My web report to Ulead tech support remains unanswered and unacknowledged, yet I've recieved three spam mails from them trying to sell me something :-(

(4) OTOH I've authored two MSP6.5 encoded mpeg2 files using MyDVD and these give perfect playback on my two players that were glitching with Ulead authored disks. Since MyDVD is one chapter point per file I've no navigation to test, but FF/REV is broke on one player so there is still something wrong with either the authoring or mpeg2 encoding or the basic technology.

I'm currently encoding three ~20 minute files to burn a disk with navigation using MyDVD.

Now that I've a 1.4GHz Tbird I'll try letting MyDVD transcode three ~20 min DV files in an attempt to learn more. This won't happen soon as MyDVD encodeing will still take about a day, I calculate.

If I'm wrong, it seems only players sold at Circut City are incompatible, yet Circut City is the only place I've found where you can actually watch a disk in a player before buying it. Go figure. They sell neither Pioneer DVD-R nor HP DVD+RW. Best Buy and Fry's sell both, but neither have DVD players hooked up so you can try. Does this smell right to you?

--wally.