Reasons for Win2k over Win98SE w/ Marvel

[Sciascia]

Can anyone give me a reason to stick with Win2k over Win98Se using the Marvel G400TV? I have been using Win2k for about 6 months and like it, but i don't see the big advantages. The only thing that I really like is the USB support for unplugging devices from the systray, but that is not a necessity. Other than that, the limited drivers, and compatibility problems with the MJPEG portion are just to big to overcome the ease of WIn98SE.

It has been awhile since I dorked with 98, but if you can give me some good reasons I would appreciate it.

[wkulecz]

Given the choice of going back to win9x or junking my G200 Marvel, it was no contest -- the Marvel is in the dustbin (BOB actually, I use the G200 card as a video card on a Linux box). YMMV.

I do analog captures as DV using the A/D "pass-thru" of my Sony TRV-120 D8 camcorder. DV at 3.6 MB/s is about the same as Marvel's best MJPEG and a whole lot less hassle without any lame file size limits.

--wally.

[Damascus]

You can leave your Win2K machine on for more than 5 minutes without rebooting because the OS actually knows how to manage memory decently. (something that uses so much has to know how to use it properly right???)

Originally posted by wkulecz
Given the choice of going back to win9x or junking my G200 Marvel, it was no contest -- the Marvel is in the dustbin (BOB actually, I use the G200 card as a video card on a Linux box). YMMV.

The easiest solution to a problem is to throw it away!

[droopy]

Hi Sciascia,

Give me some leadway and let me reverse the question. Why should you stay with Win98SE?

1:
It uses 1/6th HD space over win2000 for a basic installation.
2:
It is noticably faster then win2000.
3:
It can do with less memory then win2000.
4:
It has MUCH better support for the G400 Marvel.
5:
It has MUCH better support for the G400 Marvel. (No this is not a mistake or typo)
6:
It uses less resources then win2000.
7:
It boots faster then win2000.
8:
It is more flexible and less rigid then win2000.
9:
Most whistles and bells from win2000 can be added using third party utilities or software.
10:
Need I go on as I can make a whole long list for you.

To answer your question though.

1:
win2000 supports dual CPU.
2:
It is said to be more stable, I'm not sure on it though as I've already on average seen more of the dreaded blue stop screens on win2000 then I've seen with win98SE. (Am only using it for about 1.5 months now)
3:
It has better security, but do you need that as a home user?
4:
It has NTFS, but is that an advantage considering programs like AVI_IO and segmented captures.

For me though. Stick with win98SE. There's already enough people upgrading just to upgrade and no other reason. Microsof depends / thrives on that behaviour.

Regards, Leon

PS:
The non capitals on win2000 and win98SE is on purpose. I don't think microsof OS's are worth capitals. They're just the best solution as they are the best supported with regard to third party programs, software, shareware and utilities. By the way, same for the missing "t". If you now a little bit of Dutch you'll understand why. Else look in a Dutch / English dictionary.

PPS:
Sorry for the rant.

[Sciascia]

Well, that was interesting so far. Throwing it away is not an option until I can find a better card that has DVDMax or equivalent. I don't really feel like buying a DV cam right now either, too many questions still.

Those are points that I keep coming across. Especially after the other noght when I got several BSODs (unrelated to Matrox) and had to wait through 4 boot floppies to get the thing repaired. It takes way too long to boot and I do end up rebooting all of the time anyway because of crashes and stuff.

I have a few other devices such as my scanner and SC that have betyter support in Win98SE as well. I could do withut the convenience of these if it weren't for the Marvel. I have an extra drive laying around and am going to go for it this weekend. If I remember right the TV out works better in Win98 with MSP 6 anyway. I can't et it quite right with Win2k. Games are better as well for the mopst part.

Funny that Haig recommended Win95B as the "best" NLE OS. I do know that it is a little lighter, but I never really thought about it much. I may give it a go if I can find my old disc somewhere.

Anyone got Win3.1 on 5.25?

[wkulecz]

OEM G450 dualhead can be had on the web for ~$65. Solves the DVDMAX problem.

--wally.

[Flying dutchman]

Wkulecz, couldn't you get your Marvel G200 working under
Windows 2000, not even with the patches? Mine is working great.

[AndrewDV]

Hi,

I would say to experiment with both and make your decision based on your results. Some systems work better in Win2K than Win98 and vice-versa. In VIA systems, this can be more evident (oddly enough, XP has more built-in support for VIA than Win2K and Win98 even with the 4-in-1 drivers).

Just my experiences, but Win98/98se crashed/locked too many times for me. FAT32 also caused some "fun" corrupted files in RAID0. After experiementing with Win2K, the same situations worked fine. Having the system consistently stable along with the recoverability/file sizes of NTFS really makes me stay in Win2K.

That is not to say that I don't miss having hardware MJPEG from my G400-TV. Then again, those green flashes and stuters really made me move PIC MJPEG.

[Brian Ellis]

Sciascia

I ask the same question.

I recently had severe problems with 98SE on a (non-video) computer. Thinking that, from all the guff I'd heard about w2k, it would solve the problem, I installed it as dual boot. I still had severe problems. By trial and error, I narrowed it down to something haywire in the mother board, but untraceable. As the old one was PIII/500 with a slot A processor, I could not find a mobo with the slot, so I had to upgrade to P4/1600, which meant upgrading the power supply as well. All the other components (memory, HDDs, CD-ROM, floppy drive, SCSI card for scanner, network card etc. remained). I backed up all my data files and, because I had no faith that many proggy files were not corrupted, in both the FAT32 and NTFS partitions, I wiped the HDD clean, and divided it into 6 partitions named W98sys, W98apps, W98data (FAT32), W2ksys, W2kapps, W2kdata (NTFS). I then installed everything from scratch with all my apps in W98apps and those that would work with W2k (about half of them) a second time in W2kapps.

I still used W98SE most frequently, mainly because W2k would not support IBM ViaVoice 8 (and, if I bought v. 9, there was only partial support). The new W98SE installation worked like a dream: the only app I've ever had any problem with was an occasional glitch in Netscape (possibly because I restored the old, backed-up, User directory and I run it from that). OTOH, I had several difficulties with W2k (including it deciding too regularly that something was wrong with any of the six partitions, which was never the case, during booting) and I've experienced about twice as many BSODs. Thinking something was corrupt, I reformatted the W2ksys partition and reinstalled it and all the apps a second time: no difference. Finally, I decided to scrap it altogether: I converted the 3 NTFS partitions to FAT32 and reformatted them from W98SE, giving me an extra 20 Gb, which I have profitably used to install MSPro and other video gubbinsry, allowing me to use the faster machine for rendering stuff which I network from my slow video computer.

I have never looked back since then (about a month ago) and I'm keeping the 98SE registry as clean as I can for the longest life, even though I have a record of the installation and setup procedure for everything on the computer in a wee notebook of 80 pages, so that I can tackle a re-install logically and rapidly, item by item, should the need arise.

My conclusion: for me, as all my apps work under a very stable W98SE system, without problems, and because it is a more reliable, leaner and meaner system, I believe it is better than W2k. Oh, and by the way, my video computer works on 98SE, as well (Marvel G-200, MSPro, SB Live! and little else other than utilities to keep it fighting fit (mostly Norton System Works 2000)).

Just my opinion.

[wkulecz]

FD,

Never could get the MJPEG to do anything but crash or lockup.
Without MJPEG output back to tape the G200 Marvel has nothing that can't be done easier with a cheap WinTV board and avi_io.

As I said, I've basically given up on analog capture and when I need to capture an analog source I run it thru my Sony TRV120 D8 using the A/D passthru and capture straight to DV over firewire.

Problem free.

--wally.

[Sciascia]

Well, for me it looks like I will probably be experimenting tomorrow. I still have all of my Win98 drivers and stuff and plan to burn a driver disc for the install. Since almost all of my HW is outdated now (year old in some cases...WOW) and almost all of my drivers are final for reasons from lack of support or the company going out of business, I should have the most up to date install possible.

It is not feasible for me to go out and replace a scanner, SC, video card, capture card (none of which like Win2k particularly) for HW that may or may not work in WIn2k/XP. I know for a fact that all works great in Win98SE and I only upgraded because I needed to get some experience for work. I really do like the OS, but the little problems do get old fast. Plus, not to brag, but I really can get around very well in Win9x, it is unfortunately from years of headaches, but it all seems very easy now. That was one of the biggest reasons to upgrade, I just got bored. There is a point in which you have to just face the fact that it ain't going to work how you want it to. I did manage to get all of my HW and apps working, it just isn't as smooth as in WIn98. Especially the VT portion of the Marvel. It really does perform the best in Win98. Anyone that tells me otherwise is probably mistaken.

I plan on keeping the Win2k install just in case, but I think that it will end up sitting on a shelf and eventually be forgotten. I'm just glad that I didn't format my RAID0 array to NTFS!

Thanks for the input as it helped to confirm my thoughts. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't forgetting something.

[Brian Ellis]

Wally

I find the MJPEG hardware codec is great: easy to use, reliable and excellent quality. I don't have the option to convert in the camera as my Mini-DV has neither DV-in nor DV-out, just analogue out (victim of buying one of the very first DV cameras on the market). Notwithstanding, the analogue out has a very high bandwidth (c. 520 eq. horizontal lines on luma with a restored 4:2:2), so, with MJPEG capture set to highest quality at 704x576, I'm probably putting into the computer as good a signal as most people with more up-to-date equipment.

Problem free

[Flying dutchman]

Wkulecz,

I can only tell from my own experience that the Marvel G200 needs busmastering disabled in Powerdesk. I have tried all versions of videotools since 2.00 for Win2k, and essentially all work for me. With busmastering ENabled, I can't capture for more than a few seconds.

My current motherboard (Asus CUSL2-C) is the best I've ever had. Everything on one IRQ under Win2k, even the SB64PCI sound card. A Celeron 900 is fast enough for full-frame HuffYuv or Picvideo capturing.

[sweeper]

Hi FD,

I have very similar configuration: CUSL2-C and Matrox Marvel G200 (I even live in The Netherlands ), but I cannot neither capture nor even watch TV in W2K. I am using the latest drivers, but all what QuickConnect tells me is that I do not have TV-tuner. Well I don't , I use those in my VCR. There is no problem with that in W98, at least with the original drivers.
I saw your remark on BusMastering, but it does not help either.
Are there any other tricks? I did not sweep all the post in the forum, I am doing it right now. I will appreciate any help, thanx.

[Flying dutchman]

Hi Sweeper,

did you install Windows 2000 as an upgrade over win98 or was it a clean install? What other hardware is in your PC?


I'd recommend the following:

- remove all PCI cards from your system except the Marvel and the sound card

- Check in your motherboard manual that the Marvel and the sound card are in slots that have different IRQ's.

- Do a clean install of Windows 2000 plus servicepack 2 or 3.

-Install the Intel busmaster drivers.

- Set the graphics card to standard VGA

- Now install powerdesk.

-Set busmastering off in powerdesk, resolution to 1024x768x16k

-Set TV output to PAL.

-Now install videotools and see if it works.

-Only now start installing the rest of your PCI cards, one by one.