Stupid SVCD question

[Indiana]

The problem: Since I don't use the VCD/SVCD formats normally (they're IMO inferior to DivX considering quality/filesize ratio) I have absolutely no experience in how to create a SVCD that can be played in a standalone-player. But now I want to burn a CD for a friend that wants to use it in such a device.

I have already converted the video to mpeg2 with tmpeg (using the PAL SVCD profile). Now I have a file of ~1.1GB. What do I have to do to get two "compatible" CDs. What to use to split the file? How do I have to name the file and what layout (folders...) does the CD need? And last how to burn it (I have Nero, but without the VCD/mpeg plugin).

(one further question: Are you allowed to change the bitrate of the video to a higher / lower one than the one that's used in tmpegs SVCD-profile or maybe use VBR and still stay compatible with standalone devices?)

[Karlson]

Uuuh, thats more than one question. I'll give it a try.

> I have already converted the video to mpeg2 with tmpeg (using
> the PAL SVCD profile).

That's the quick and dirty solution. I hope you set the right
properties for the source file. Also, I heard that some peolpe
tweak GOPs and Matrices, but for the "one time" thing here it
will be appropriate.

> What to use to split the file?

As you are so lucky to use tmpegenc to encode, you have everything on your hand already. Under File/Mpeg tools... you
may find everything you need. There is a split tool. It will take
a while, though...

> How do I have to name the file and what layout (folders...)
> does the CD need?

You do not take care about these things. Let your authoring or
burning software do that for you.

For authoring, I like Ulead MovieFactory a lot. It's easy and make
nice looking VCDs, SVCDs, and DVDs, the CD based formats even
with nice menues. But fot he tome beeing, use Nero.

> And last how to burn it (I have Nero, but without the VCD/mpeg
> plugin).

You do not need the plugin, as it is only used to encode, what
you already did. Chose SVCD from the Wizard. Deselect that you
want menues, unless you know what you want. Drop the MPEG
file to the left. Burn.

For more information, there is a lot of links. The best sites in
my oppinion are the one from mb1 and (as I think you are
German www.edv-tipp.de (hier erst auf den Pfeil drücken und
dann nach SVCD/DVD klicken).

Good luck,
Karlson.
suchen, da wird wirklich alles ausführlich erklärt)



(one further question: Are you allowed to change the bitrate of the video to a higher / lower one than the one that's used in tmpegs SVCD-profile or maybe use VBR and still stay compatible with standalone devices?)

[Dr Mordrid]

The deck itself first must be SVCD capable. Many more than a year or so old are not. Some of these also have a limitation in that they don't support CD-R.

IF this is not an issue (check http://www.vcdhelper.com 's DVD deck list to see) you can do very nice SVCD's in TMPGEnc by;

1. select the SVCD preset (DUH!)

2. If DV footage go to Options/Environmental Setting and select "Interpolate YUV from 4:1:1 to 4:4:4".

3. Go to Settings/Advanced and check the Deinterlace box. Now doubleclick on its name and in the dialog select Even Field (adaption) as the type.

Using adaptive deinterlacing gets rid of interlacing artifacts before encoding. The output will still be interlaced if you haven't changed it in the main menu. Check before encoding to be sure.

4. If there are dark regions that need brightening open the Simple Color Correction filter and tweak the Gamma a tad.

5. Choose your encoding method. I prefer CQ VBR.

6. Encode, but be prepared for a wait.

This file will work fine with most authoring softare including MSPro's DVD Plugin or Uleads DVD MovieFactory. DVD Plugin will need the latest patches though. DVD MovieFactory is a steal.

To set higher bitrates for xSVCD's you can either;

1. Select CBR. This will unlock the birtate dialog below it. You can also use the Settings button next to the mode dialog, but it's redundent.

2. Select anything else and click the Settings button next to the mode dialog.

I'd probably go no higher than about 3400 kbps, but some decks choke at 3000 kbps. The VCDHelper site often lists how high each deck it lists can go.

In the Settings/CQ and CQ-VBR dialogs you'll find a Quality slider. Crank this up to kick up the quality at the price of larger files.

Dr. Mordrid

[Indiana]

Thanks a lot for the answers, I guess I'll try it with a RW first (the player does support CDR and RW as well as mp3, VCD, SVCD and XSVCD, but apparently only up to 2500KBps). On his TV he won't notice anyway....

[Karlson]

@Doc: for what reason would you de-interlace when producing an SVCD? The normal material would be interleaced, the MPEG2 would be interleaced? I would only switch fields maybe, if it is
necessary when source material and player differ...

[Dr Mordrid]

Very often you will see feather artifacts in interlaced footage that has horizontal motion in it.

Delacing witih Even Adaptive makes these portions VERY clean indeed when it goes to the MPEG encoding engine.

AFTER encoding it gets written to the output file as interlaced, fulfilling the needs of the SVCD spec but without the artifacts.

I've seen enough footage shot in lace to know that somewhere, somehow these will find their way into the video unless you run around using a 1/1000 shutter speed all the time. Hardly anyone does for lighting reasons so.....

Terry

[Sciascia]

Thanks for the explanation Doc. I always catch a lot of flack from others about using smart deinteralce (same as adaptive I assume) and then frameserving to my encoder. I could not explain the exact reason, all I knew is that it looked better. Now I have a "matter of fact" response.

I also use a low level of temporal cleaning to remove as much noise as possible without smoothing the video. This helps the encoder alot as well. Any thing that is detected as motion is just sucking up bandwidth that could be used for "true" video for P/B frames. You won't necessarily see a filesize difference in CBR, but VBR may make a difference. The biggest improvement is in overall quality at lower bitrates.

[Karlson]

Sorry, I still think it's not logical to de-interlace interlaced
material that is intended to be used to produce an interlaced
SVCD intended to be played on a tv set.

But anyway, as long as it works and everybody is ok...

[Indiana]

Karlsson, you're right for most interlaced TV broadcasts, they're better looking if you keep them interlaced when watching on the TV, smoother movements. On the monitor, of course you will get a lot of "weaving". But recently I came across quite some TV broadcasts that seemed to be from a progressive source and just broadcasted "interlaced" 'cause that's how the PAL standard is. For these, it' really better to deinterlace them first.
I'd suggest deinterlacing for everything that's intended to be viewed on computer monitors as well. Besides most compressors seem to really get much higher ratios with deinterlaced video than with interlaced ones, so it might be an advantage to sacrifice some smoothness in motion against overall image-quality if you're doing lower bitrate conversions.

[Karlson]

Understood and acepted. That's realy a good reason.

I had interlaced material that I produced with a video editor
that also contained quickly moving subtitles from time to time
to say: "Now the baby is 12 day old...". It has been produced
with the intention to record it on VHS tape and now should
make it on an SVCD.

The only chance to get this moving text crisp and sharp on an
SVCD played on a tv set was use the interleaced b order matrox
file and ecode it interlaced lower (unchecked) with CCE SP.

All other ways with what de-interlacer ever logically resulted in
smear effects on the text, because the text was generated by
MSP 6.0 and weaved into the pictures.

[Dr Mordrid]

Most of the footage I end up delacing (and no, it's not everything) is that which exhibits feather artifacts in motion scenes.

Given that those frames are already degraded visually delacing them to mitigate the situation isn't exactly criminal.

Dr. Mordrid