Digital Video Storage: HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

[Jerry Jones]

I've just installed an ONSTREAM "Echo" advanced digital recording (ADR) 30gb removable storage tape drive.
http://www.onstream.com/digvid/video-pro.html

The ONSTREAM drives come with a variety of computer connection choices.

I chose the ONSTREAM "Echo" model with the external SCSI connection (Model SC30e).

Wow! This drive rocks!!

Wish I had discovered this sooner!!

ONSTREAM's ADR drive uses these really COMPACT and SLIM tape cartridges that
have a native capacity of 15gb, but can
hold 30gb if you choose 2:1 compression!

(There are also tape cartridges available with a whopping 50 GIGABYTES of storage capacity.)
http://www.onstream.com/desktop/sc30_d.html

Setup of my SCSI external drive was so simple--a chimp could do it.

I already had a 50-pin Initio SCSI adapter.

Two of my internal SCSI drives are connected to the Initio and I connected the ONSTREAM external drive to the external connector using a supplied 50-pin cable.

I set the ONSTREAM drive's termination switch to "ON" and I installed the ECHO software on CD and I was up and running.

I did a FULL BACKUP of all four (4) of my hard drives.

(I had to disable my Virus program's real time scanning during the backup process.)

In my machine:

a = 3.5" floppy drive

c = eide system drive

d = eide drive

e = scsi drive

f = scsi drive

g = Iomega Zip drive

h = CD-ROM drive

i = ONSTREAM ECHO drive

The ONSTREAM ECHO has copied every single file on the other hard drives
and the file copies are instantly accessible... just as they would be if
copied to a regular hard drive.

The great thing is these advanced digital recording cartridges are INEXPENSIVE at
less than $40 a pop!

While I haven't been able to get smooth playback of Canopus DV video
files with their 3.7mb / second throughput requirement, I *HAVE* achieved
smooth playback of MPEG-2 (DVD quality) video files... up to 2mb / second
throughput... DIRECTLY FROM THE TAPE CARTRIDGE IN THE ONSTREAM DRIVE!

Plus, I can easily transfer Canopus DV video files to the drive for storage and then copy them back to a hard drive for smooth playback whenever they're needed.

So---these tape cartridges are GREAT for archiving entire video projects,
including the Ulead MEDIASTUDIO Video Project files and all accompanying video and
graphic files on a single cartridge at a very reasonable price.

Check it out:
http://www.onstream.com/digvid/index.html

I'll be doing some more testing in the days ahead... but right now I can say for
a fact that this product has SOLVED my digital video storage problems and I
thought I had better pass it along.

[Tinnes]

Wow that sounds great. The best I got is a old Zip Drive and 2x2x6 CDR. I think I will put it on my wish list. Number 568 (Very long list)



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[Walrus]

Jerrold: Yeah, the Onstream drives are EXCELLENT. My SCSI 25/50 gig model is currently connected to my laptop through it's SCSI PCMCIA card. The big problem: No Windows 2000 support for Echo yet (which is why I access it through my network to my laptop running '98). They promised a beta driver in April, and so far nothing. (do note: there is support under W2k for some tape backup programs, but not for Echo, their program which allows drive letter access) Otherwise, I love this sucker. I can actually watch MPEG-2 video on my main computer through a DVD decoder that resides on the tape drive connected to the laptop over my local network. The 25/50 gig model's actual data transfer rate is usually between 1 and 2 megabytes/sec (which is more than enough for DVD streams).
I recommend people hold off due to the W2K issue if you need W2K support, but otherwise I can't recommend this drive enough.

[Jerry Jones]

I got the external scsi model pictured here:
http://www.onstream.com/desktop/sc30_ed.html

But the photo doesn't show the pedestal stand that comes with the drive.

It actually mounts the drive vertically so that it takes up very little space next to my CPU tower.

I plan to get one for the office so I can move entire video projects from my home computer to my work computer on a single, slim digital video (ADR) tape cartridge.

Man--I love this drive.

[Walrus]

Jerrold: Well mine wasn't "originally" external. Though it's really not hard to put the drive into an external SCSI casing. It's also usually cheaper doing that than paying the extra cost of external vs internal. Right now it's in my external 4 bay SCSI tower along with my CD-RW drive.
Incidently, since you seem to want portablity, you may want to look at the USB model since that will hook into any compouter with USB support (though I imagine it only works in W95 & W98). The max transfer rate is a little slower (.75MB/sec) though it's not too bad.

[wkulecz]

The OnStream tape may be great as a general computer backup, but ....

IF backing up video is your goal it looks rather expensive to me. The External SCSI model is ~$600. Read the fine print on the tapes -- 30GB is "compressed" with a rather optimistic 2:1 ratio, DV or MJPEG is unlikely to compress much if any under one of these loss-less schemes. Thus $33 for 15GB (about 75 minutes of DV) compared to $8 for a D8 tape (60 minutes of DV) and ~$650 for the bottom of the line D8 camcorder, after a couple of video backups you'll be break even on drive and media costs plus you'll have a second camera you can use for two camera scene coverage. The 4MB/sec speed is only marginally faster than DV over firewire, but in fact it may only do 2MB/sec when "uncompressed".

From my reading of the specs you need a more expensive model of the drive to use the 50GB tapes (which can also use 30GB tapes)

Buyer beware.

--wally.

[Walrus]

wkulecz:
You are absolutley correct. Actually, in drive letter mode, there is no compression at all. I don't even think of the 50 gig number, and just use the tapes as 25 gig drives. That said, the tapes work out as marginally more expensive per gig than CD-Rs. In my mind, that's a good deal. Since I only deal with analog video sources with my Marvel, and I deal largely with MPEG files, the onstream is perfect for me. (and my real transfer rates for my SC50 is around 1.2-1.6 MB/sec) However, I agree if one is dealing exclusivley with DV sources, a camera with tapes makes more sense.

[Brian Ellis]

I've brought this up before and I do not hesitate to bring it up again. Why the bloody hell should we need to buy a camera to have a DV tape drive? Why cannot some enterprising guy not come up with an internal (or external) mini-DV drive to and from which we can transfer video data, without having to buy a rubbishy lens, a CCD, a couple of motors (zoom and iris) and the associated electronics. If a complete camera can sell for <$1000, could not such drives, which represent a minor part of the camera, sell for $300? And a deluxe version could have a sug and plocket for inning and outing analogue as well as digital for an extra $100.

For me, this would make sense. But the drive manufacturers don't seem to think so.

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Brian (the terrible)

[Jerry Jones]

Actually, FAST made just such a drive...
for DV tapes. I saw one here in town about
three years ago.

Don't know if they still market that or not.

Fast are getting out of the prosumer desktop video biz.

[Jerry Jones]

One reason why I like the OnStream digital tapes is it will allow me to free up my existing store of DV tapes for shooting and at the same time give me the ability to mix DV files with other types of non-video graphic files that I can use to create video files. In other words, I can keep everything together---usually on just one 15gb tape cartridge.

[mynx]

I agree with Brian. The manufacturers charge $250 parts cost to replaced a mini-DV mechanism. They don't repair them. The electronics shouldn't add that much more cost.

[Brian Ellis]

Mynx

Thanks for your support.

May I ask all who read this to reply to the following question, yes or no?

If an internal or external mini-DV drive for a PC were available for, say, $300 to 400, would you consider buying one?

If yes, would you consider an analogue video I/O be worth an extra $100?

If there is a majority of yesses, then this could be used to try and persuade someone to manufacture such a unit, which could be used to a) read camera tapes (saving expensive wear on the DV camera drive) b) save video at all the stages of editing c) archive video d) duplicate tapes, all at full DV resolution. Depending on the software, it is also conceivable that other data types could also be stored on it.

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Brian (the terrible)



[This message has been edited by Brian Ellis (edited 11 May 2000).]

[kenobi]

Some of you are missing the point of an on-stream. I have the ide 30 gb model. It cost me 550$can. about 300$usd including one cartridge. It is 30gb when you use the on-stream back-up software. This is were you check compression on/off. It does not matter what files you are using it is simply changing the way it is writing the information. So you always get exactly 2:1 compression. If you just drag and drop files to the drive they will be in 1:1 compression, giving about 14gig per cartridge. Using compression is prefered as you can still run files directly( It does not need to uncompress them first) and its back-up speed does not change much. I chose the 30gig ide model because speed was not that important about the speed of a 6 times ide cd burner. The included software is able to automate backups and restore as well as catalouge every file on every cartrdge I have. I also store 1000's of mp3's, games, apps, in fact everything I can get my hands on, hehe! When a cartridge is full I get another only 60$can (40$usd) It can't be scratched like a cd or store only dv video like a mini dv drive. Why anyone would want a mini dv tape drive over a on-stream that is fully intergrated into their computer is far from my grasp. On-stream rocks period. P.S I have all my drives ghosted at different dates and my recent reinstall was so fast it brought tears(of joy) to my eyes. If your serious about amature dv editing you want an On-stream.

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Damnit Jim I'm a film maker, not a systems tech!

[Walrus]

Just as a note: Beta W2K onstream echo software has just been released. (go to the FAQ page off of onstream.com and look for questions regarding w2k)
Gonna try it out very soon...

[mynx]

kenobi: We are talking about a fully intergrated tape backup drive, but using the mini-DV format. I'll have to look into the always 2:1 compression, I'm a see it to believe it person.

Brian Ellis: I would buy an internal one(SCSI). But I would rather process any video files rather than having video in/out. That would probably require macrovision protection and who knows what else.