G400TV Audio Line-Out probs

[Believer]

Note: Posted this problem back on 4/25 but it seems to have disappeared. That's okay, I wasn't getting very far...

Using Matrox PC-VCR Remote to capture and play back, I get no audio going to my TV/VCR. If I plug the cable labelled "Audio In" into the speaker out (vs line out) I get audio but it sux.
Have seen it recommended (in this forum) to bypass the BOB - does that mean connecting a 1/8" from PC line out directly to RCA Audio-in on TV/VCR?
Have also seen it recommended (in this forum) to mute line in during playback (& line out during capture?). I don't see a line-out volume control in the standard Win98 volume pop-up (and I have checked in the options/properties menu option).
(Yes, I've been doing my homework!)
Any thoughts?
If you need my PC specs, just holler. Thanks!

[Christopher Cameron]

Hi !

I had a similar problem with my Marvel card, but I got it to work eventually. Take a look at the official Matrox Forum under this address:
http://forum.matrox.com/mgaforum/For...ML/000441.html

Maybe this will give you all the help you need = )

Christopher

------------------

[Believer]

Thanks! (Can't believe I didn't see that post when I was hunting around.)

Well, I got it to work but it works same as before. I guess I've just been mislead by the installation instructions... You have to use a y-adapter on the speaker out (1 side to speakers, one side to BOB). Just so I'm not missing something: You do *not* use the line out from the sound card, right?

I tried playing two clips: 1 original as captured, the other after generating from Adobe 4.2. I swear the second sounds crappy. I even had to boost the volume of the clips in Adobe. I'll go fiddle some more and report back here (probably tomorrow afternoon).

Thank You!

[fluggo99]

Weeellll... there's a lot of things confused here.

The problem (and solution) found by Chris in the referenced article is all based on putting sound through the BOB. Avoiding the trouble he had is the whole reason for bypassing the BOB, and I still recommend it. The only time you need the BOB hooked up is when you're watching TV; the BOB has to supply the sound to your sound card. Otherwise, forget it. Do exactly as you said-- use an adapter to connect RCA jacks to the 1/8" jack on your sound card.

When capturing audio, your sound card simultaneously turns it into digital audio (recording options) and plays it to you through the Line-In slider (playback options). When playing digital audio, your sound card plays it thru the "Wave" slider.

From what I read in your second post, by the looks of it, the audio got messed up not in any of your volume settings or connections, but in the way Premiere treated the digital audio. Check your export settings to make sure that the audio is converted to something of sufficient quality. (e.g. Looks like you may be running 44.1kHz 16bit sound through a meat grinder to produce 11kHz 8bit audio -- nothing to do with your sound card)

Once you have that fixed, play back the clip with either speakers, a TV, or a VCR hooked into the "Line Out" or "Speaker Out" connection on your sound card-- NO Y-CONNECTORS; hook only one thing up at a time. It will preserve what audio quality you have. Work the "Wave" and "Master" sliders (or what have you) until the volume levels are good for you.

You must use some form of output on your sound card. Be it line out or speaker out, no matter what it's labeled, it's controlled by the master slider in the volume settings, and supplied by the other sliders. If you have both, the difference between them is probably only the strength of the signal; switch between them until you figure which one works better. But they both are supplied by the same sound from the card, and it's this you must figure out how to control. (BTW, I have never heard of a line out mute, much less using it during capture-- there's no point!)

Might I recommend getting a trial version of GoldWave and doing some digital audio editing just to get the experience for how your sound card works, because the way your video equipment uses the sound card is no different whatsoever. Audio editing is just a faster, easier means for discovering how to best use your audio card; play with the settings until you have a method you like. (e.g. Do you need/want to mute line-in during playback? What happens when I use various settings during capture? How many of them actually make a difference at all, and of those that do, do they affect the capture, or just my perception of it?)

These things come only from direct experience with your equipment. Many ways will work, but you'll want to find the one you like. For instance, Mr. Cameron found his own solution for his problem. He likes it, I like bypassing the BOB. Both work. In the end, you have to come up with your own methods.

[Believer]

Wow, fluggo, lots of good stuff here.
(Now that I look back on what I'm writing belowe, I guess a lot of it is just clarification, so please be patient!)
Do I hear you recommending that I *do* bypass the BOB when I am playing on the PC & recording on the VCR?
What does the BOB do with Audio passed thru it in either direction? Is there any procesing or is it just passed straight thru?
I have been messing with audio settings a bit and haven't found the sweet spot yet, but I'll keep working on it. You see, the videos I make get played at church thru a sound system. (The same sound system we use for a contemporary rock band, so the amps, speakers, etc. are good.) When I play the videos there, I tend to get a really muddy sound. One of the interesting things I found out today was that increasing the volume in premiere's audio track makes the sound worse. (BTW: I always output 44k 16bit sound either mono or stereo.)
You also say NOT to use a Y adapter. That means when I got to record on the VCR I gotta unhook the PC speakers & plug in the BOB (or 1/8"). Correct? (I used to use a Buz and its Wav connector has a 1/8" piggyback for the speakers.)
And you say there is no need to mute either the wave (during line-in capture) or line-in (during wav playback)?
I will also see if it helps to hook up some headphones during editing to see if I can better detect inconsistencies in the sound.

Thanks a ton for the pointers; I guess your last paragraph sums it up pretty well! Now that the audio is working, I get to begin the tedious task of fine-tuning. (My wife reminded me that I went thru the same thing when I got the Buz a couple years ago.)

[fluggo99]

> Do I hear you recommending that I *do*
> bypass the BOB when I am playing on the PC
> & recording on the VCR?
> What does the BOB do with Audio passed thru
> it in either direction? Is there any
> procesing or is it just passed straight thru?

There's no processing, but any extra connections between source and destination have the tendency to introduce hums, buzzes, WBAP talk radio, etc. There's also a switch inside the BOB (yet another connection) that's controlled by Matrox's software, and you can just read Mr. Cameron's solution to guess at how finicky it is. Others have reported more major quality drops, although I doubt they're BOB-related. So yes, do skip the BOB.

> When I play the videos there, I tend to get a really muddy sound.

Play from what? Are you recording to VHS and transferring it to a VCR in the sound booth? If so, you must also take into consideration:

+ the audio quality of your home VCR (can it record HiFi? audio levels high enough?)
+ the audio quality of the church's VCR (can it play HiFi?)
+ how the church's VCR is tied into their system (i.e. is its mixer channel as tweaked as those for the instruments, mikes, CD players, etc.?)

But if you're getting the same thing coming straight from your computer, then we're back to square one

> You also say NOT to use a Y adapter. That
> means when I got to record on the VCR I
> gotta unhook the PC speakers & plug in the
> BOB (or 1/8"). Correct? (I used to use a
> Buz and its Wav connector has a 1/8"
> piggyback for the speakers.)

Correct, same story as above-- it has the potential to cause audio artifacts, although in this case splitting the signal can compound the problem. I say "can" because it might not. If you think the sound quality is just as good either way, and would rather save yourself the trouble of crawling behind your PC to switch things all the time, go ahead.

(Buz? ICK!! don't remind me-- although the pass-thru feature was kinda nice)

> And you say there is no need to mute
> either the wave (during line-in capture)
> or line-in (during wav playback)?

*shrug* No need to. Unless you've got a cheap-o old sound card, there's no need to mute wave at all, ever. For line-in, you might want to mute it to avoid noise coming in from that direction, say, while you're recording the final video out to tape. On my current sound card (SB Live), that's also unnecessary. Plug in some good headphones (and not through the jack on the front of your speakers; where the BOB might cause audio problems, the headphone jack on your speakers does; I use a tape deck, myself) and listen to see if there's a difference when you mute different channels.

As a general rule, mute everything that you don't ever use. Problem spots are usually the "Microphone" and "PC Speaker" channels.

Sorry to say there's not a miracle solution here! Yes, get some headphones, and sit down with some digital audio software and play with your sound card.

> Thanks a ton for the pointers

Any time!