Best CDR for video

[kwmarriott]

Just wondererd if anyone has experience of which are the best type of cdr to go for to transfer video to svcd. Ignoring the player compatibilty-has any one any advice on the most robust discs?

I am finding that some discs damage very easily, where as if I stick a lable on the label can lift and in some cases rip the layer off the cdr.

Just for info (and as most of my office didn't know): when you burn a cdr you are actually writting to the underside of the top (through the plastic), so if you damage the top you wreck the cd..Surprised a few people with that one..

[Brian Ellis]

I use Memorex, 3-M, BASF and Lacie without problems. I've never had label problems, with the full-size Avery or Neat labels. You should never use any other size.

I believe that labels of any type are anathema for DVDs, though.

You surprise me that you surprise others. How could a CD work with the reflective coating separated from the signal layer by 1.13 mm of polycarbonate?

[kwmarriott]

Most people I have spoken to believe the layer you burn to is sandwiched between the plastic-like a real pressed cd! I have just scratched a few discs to prove my point - that you can see straight through them when the top is damaged. I wonder how many people damage painted ones (inkjet finish) because they can look very professional andnot at all like a burned cdr.

[wkulecz]

VCD and SVCD is the only place I use CD-RW. I find these disks too unreliable for data but for video I've encountered quite a few DVD players that will not play VCD or SVCD on CD-R but will if its on CD-RW.

Who cares how "robust" the disk might be it it don't play!

--wally.

[Dr Mordrid]

I've been using Memorex for some time, but recently I've noticed their silver reflective surfaces peeling off

As a result I'm now using alternatives, but haven't settled on one brand yet. Still testing.

Dr. Mordrid

[KuroNeko]

The absolutely best CDRs for longtime archiving are the ones manufactured by Mitsui. 200 Year Archive Life. Expensive though.

Kodak used to be good too (Kodak Japan) but I'm not sure if they still manufacture CDR, I seem to recall a press release where they said they dropped CDR and wanted to concentrate on DVD-R

Absolutely avoid those Ritek discs - they are mainly OEM manufacturing for bigger brands like TDK, Philips and stuff. Find a tool online called "CDRIdentifier" and use it to determine the ATIP of the disc. It will reveal the true manufacturer of the disc. Many high-street brand discs turn out to be the lowest quality stuff.

Side note: in the early CDR days, a local plant called Sentinel used to make CDRs where you could peel off the write layer from the disc, like a plastic film (if you had good longa nd strong nails )

Neko

[kwmarriott]

It's a good point that many (branded too) cdr discs are made by the same company regardless of price and brand is no measure of quality. I remember reading a review of Kodak discs and depending on the packaging, some discs were made in europe (and they were fine) where as others were made in the far east and they were full of errors.

I have had a disc scatching session (!) and found that plain white discs that are printable survive a scratch very well. These were not expensive but when I scratched the top only the scratched area came away, no peeling or cracking around the scratch. This suggests to me that the layer is well bonded to the disc. When it takes many hours to produce a vcd or svcd it would be nice to think the cdr will last longer than the VHS tape!

[Brian Ellis]

See http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/digital...9036379,00.htm

[KuroNeko]

I did a very quick check of the above review, and the second part already looked bad. They presented "CompUSA" as a CDR brand and did not seem to mention the real manufacturer. Difficult to accept any value in the results of their tests then.

The real manufacturer is important, a it varies greatly. For instance, the Philips Silverspeed 24x are by Mitsui, but only a few, the rest is made by RiteK!!

There are tools with which you can do a rough check at home. They measure the amount of C2 errors. It's a rough check because the drive with which you work will have an influence. Great drives to use are Teac burners and Plextor. Experience will teach you how to interprete the results from your drive.

The method I found expert users apply is to measure C2 right after burning and then in intervals. If they get C2 errors in big amounts right away, this may either indicate problems with the CDR disc, or a compatibility issue between the CDR and the used burner. Burners must adapt the laserpower to the type of disc, and with such a great variety of types around this is difficult. Really good drives store a list of known CDR types and brands in their firmware, (some burn software does this too) which they then check via the ATIP data.

If after a year or so, the number of C2 errors measured increases, that disc has poor archive life. Of course, the way it has been stored and handled makes a difference.

Some of those guys have been doing this for a number of years now, and they have a good feeling about which are good and which are bad. That's how I know Ritek is poor, and I noticed it myself from my older discs.

For those interested in lots of good data on the subject, and understand a bit of German, try de.comp.hardware.laufwerke.brenner

Just pop over to google and enter the brand of disc in the search engine. Lots of useful data will appear

Be aware that these guys don't find CompUSA discs in Germany, and I'm sure you USA residents won't find Aldi discs in the local comp shop either. But for worldwide brands, it's a treasuretrove of information.

BTW, I just found a really good price on Gold Ultra 80min Mitsui - if you're in Europe check out www.brennershop.de. Euro 1,10- , most other places it's almost double that!

www.feurio.de has an online shop (expensive) - with an English version - where you can see more about the ATIP/manufacturer behind lots of big brands.

Neko

[Brian Ellis]

Neko

You must be joking if you think I'd pay E1.10. I pay less than half that for BASF in jewel cases and this is a country where there is a hefty import duty on such items. I have never had one of these fail (except for one which I dropped on a concrete floor and promptly stood upon ). I've also never had a Memorex fail on me, although I admit that I have used them only because a spindle of 50 came gratis with my burner.

[KuroNeko]

It's a calculated risk. If you want to be sure your data is available in 10 years time, you have to pay the price.

From my experience, 1 Euro for a reliable disc is a very good price. All others will decay and in 10 years time they'll be worthless.

I also use cheap discs for transporting data, keeping software and stuff, for which I know archival life is not an issue.

But my video stuff will go onto archival quality discs now.

I keep hearing foks saying they'll copy stuff in 5 years anyway, on the then newest media. Ever consider the costs of copying every 5 years, and having to worry that 5 years isn't too long already?

My Mitsui's will be OK til the day I die, should I need them that long. That to me is worth the few cents more. Even cheap discs cost 0.6 Euro, so why would I cut corners on such small amounts?

Neko

[Brian Ellis]

Neko

I'm sorry, but I think you're being more royalist than the king (or catholic than the pope). IMHO, you're richer than you deserve if you waste money like that.

The BASF CD-Rs that I use are made in Germany by Emtec Magnetics GmbH in Ludwigshafen. The published archival time of a burnt disc by the makers is >100 years at 35°C and 85% RH. However - and this is perhaps what you are thinking of - there is a shelf life before burning (as with all makes) of a minimum of 3 to 5 years. This is something totally different and is a function of changes of the absorbtivity of the phthalocyanine layer. A good disc will have a wide latitude of burning power, typically in a ratio of 2:1 (the BASF CD-Rs accept from 4 to 8 mW and the RWs from 8-14 mW). This latitude is important because individual burners have fairly wide variations in their laser performance. Another important parameter is the read stability. This is determined with a laser power of 0.7 mW and, in the case of a BASF disc, is greater than 10 million read cycles, a few more than I'm ever likely to need.

The last lot I bought (maker's original carton of 10 boxes of 10, in jewel cases) I paid the equivalent of about E52 for the lot, plus VAT at 8% or 10% (can't remember which as it went up). I'm darn sure that these will still be alive a century after me!

OTOH, CD-RWs have a much shorter archival lifetime and a longer shelf life.

[KuroNeko]

Originally posted by Brian Ellis
Neko

I'm sorry, but I think you're being more royalist than the king (or catholic than the pope). IMHO, you're richer than you deserve if you waste money like that

Brian, I would bet I make not even half of what you earn. But I do am 100% sure I spent it wiser.

The data I must archive is valuable and irreplacable - replacing this data would be horrendously expensive if possible at all, so the Mitsui solution is actually _dirt cheap_. From long experience of others and myself, experience you readily discard based on the manufacturer's own data, I know that Mitsuis are worth double their money and are totally reliable. Something I cannot say of any other brand, including BASF, who manufacture only a small portion of their discs, and buy OEM for the rest. I tried all of them. No satisfaction. Kodak made good ones, decided they couldn't keep quality with such low prices and decided rather than risk their reputation, to drop out. ALL those that sell discs for less than a Euro are unreliable IMO (excluding special stock clearance sales and the like - I bought my Kodak stock a year ago at 0.4 Euro like that). There's a minimum cost involved in making a decent CDR, and if you drop lower, you're cutting corners somewhere, mostly in process control and quality control. So you may have a BASF or other disc that will keep 10 years. But the next will be different. And the next, and the next. Unreliable quality levels means I cannot trust them to store my valuable data.

When I order Mitsui branded discs, I KNOW I will be getting Mitsui manufactured quality discs. That alone is worth money. All other brands mix OEM's under their label, including BASF, Verbatim, TDK and a lot of others formerly known for quality. They couldn't keep up production with the CDR boom, and in order to keep up with ever lower prices decided to buy in other nameless stuff. Mitsui never did this, they wanted to stick with quality and decided to risk a higher price. Something that has lead to them now being the lone top quality in the market.

As always, you get what you pay for.

Neko

[Brian Ellis]

Neko

All the BASF discs are made by Emtec: I've never seen any other sold under that name.

However, just to show how wrong you can be, I earn nothing and I live on a miserable State old-age pension, so it is VERY unlikely that your income is half of mine.

You buy your Mitsuis, I'll not waste my money.

[paulw]

Brian,

The last lot of BASF CDRs that I bought were made in Taiwan not Germany.