PAL video out - can anyone in the PAL world help?

[colinbr]

Can anyone in the PAL world confirm if the composite or s-video out from their G450eTV (or G400) can be recorded on a VCR in COLOR?

When I connect the composite out of my G450eTV to a TV the image displays in color. But if I then connect the same cable to a SCART input of my VCR, the VCR records it in monochrome - no color flashes just pure monochrome. The composite signal must therefore contain the color information but the VCR can not record it.

The s-video out from the card is recorded by the VCR in monochrome aswell.

I have tried this on two TVs and two VCRs with the same results.

I have read that TVs are much more forgiving than VCRs about being fed with a non-standard signal. This would seem to suggest that the G450eTV is transmitting a non-standard PAL color component signal which the VCR does not recognise.

Can anyone confirm whether they have managed to make a color recording on a PAL VCR from the PAL output of a G450eTV or G400 etc... ?

Thanks,

Colin

[DrP]

I can record colour from my G400.

[This_Idiot]

Don't have a 450 handy to test with , but yes I've O/P composite PAL from G400 on many occasions. Unless you have an Svideo TV or VCR, forget trying to push that signal through a Scart, it won't work (you'd need a dedicate Svideo-Svideo lead).

If you keep the same plugging at the PC end and only switch the scart from the TV (which gives full colour) to the VCR (which gives B&W) then I'm wondering if Macrovision is making the difference. Or maybe you've got a long cable run which is degrading the signal to the VCR.

T_I

[Indiana]

G400 here, no problems with this.

[davpen]

Your problem may be related to the use of the SCART connector on the VCR. I don't know a lot about this but my understanding is that SCART can carry several types of signals. I have an ancient monitor that uses a SCART connector and I tried connecting both composite and s-video signals to it through an adapter. It didn't work at all. A bit of thinking about the origins of the monitor made me realise that it only supported an RGB signal.

Your problem may be something like this. If the VCR has an ordinary composite in connector I would try that. What sort of adapter/cable are you using to get from the video card to the SCART connector?

Like the few other replies I have also sucessfully recorded in PAL from a G400 in the past.


Cheers,

David.

[colinbr]

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far.

The cable I am using is a Belkin gold-plated kit which consists of a scart plug-adaptor with an in/out switch and sockets along its back for connecting s-video, composite video (phono) and stereo audio (2 phonos). It also comes with a s-video cable which I've used to connect the scart plug-adaptor to the svideo out connector on the G450eTV card.

To connect the composite video, I am using a phono-to-phono lead that I borrowed from my hi-fi system. It is screened of course but I am wondering if using a "audio" cable for carrying the video signal might not be such a good idea. I had assumed it would be OK as it carries a color signal to both of my TVs with no problems, and also because the s-video also suffers from monochrome recording on my VCR. I may therefore buy a dedicated composite phono-to-phono video cable if anyone thinks this might make a difference (?)

I have also tried to feed the composite signal from the card into the video-in phono socket on the front of my VCR and that records in monochrome too, so it isn't just a SCART-related problem. I connected a camcorder to the same socket and that records in color, so again I suspect that there's something wrong with the cards video out signal.

Would macrovision cause this monochrome effect? I thought that it was mean to fool the VCR into recording over or under exposed images. The monochrome recording looks fine.

Also I thought that macrovision was something that was encoded into commercial DVDs, so presumably it doesn't apply in my case where I am trying to output my own edited footage.

Colin

[Brian Ellis]

Colin

No one can be categorical as to whether it is the cause of your problems, but it is not a brilliant idea to use an audio quality cable for video, especially if it is more than a few cm long. A video signal requires a bandwidth of several MHz. An audio signal requires 20 kHz at the most (and only bats can hear that ). The insulation and characteristic impedance of an audio cable is therefore far less critical than with video. I could well imagine that if the cable bandwidth is restricted, it would be the chrominance signal that would be the first to suffer. It may be that VCRs are more critical than a TV at interpreting the chrominance signal into a form suitable for the recording format.

I use(d) a Marvel G-200 and had no problems in taking the BOB O/P signal to a Scart-in connector on the VCR and then a Scart-out connector to the TV and recorded colour without problem. Just set to AV1 on both units.

[Chrisberg]

Hi Colin,

no offense please, but: have you set the dvd-max output to PAL ?
sure you have.. My idea was just, that modern tv will accept both signals, while the vcr is somehow picky and needs the correct signal input and setting...
I have copied SVCD material from a G400 PC to a PAL VCR over a home-made composite to scart cable, completely made of recycled audio cinch cable. The cable is about 3m long and the image is flawless, so I assume that this "high-quality video cable" issue only applies to high end users.

regards,
chris

[orbital]

Hi

I think Colin is correct. My G400TV has the habit of changing its output to NTSC even though it is set not to change unless I reboot!!!
Just go in the advanced settings and check it out.

Control panel>Display>settings>advanced>duel head

Orbital

[colinbr]

I have just bought a DVD player which came supplied with a tripple phone-to-phono cable (video and 2xaudio). All three parts of the cable look the same, but assuming that it is suitable for conducting a video signal, I'll give that a try.

I don't have any dual-head dvd-max settings set up (I think I may have selected not to have dual-head when I installed the drivers). This doesn't seem to be relevant for editing video footage as editing programs are able to play through the card's video-out without any dual-head settings. The setting which matters is under "TV output" which simply allows you to select PAL or NTSC output.

I did try selecting NTSC output and found that the VCR still recorded in monochrome, but the recorded "image" occupied most of the screen with the top of another image in a strip along the bottom of the screen - this seemed to be consistent with NTSC having fewer lines. I therefore think it's safe to assume that originally the card was really outputting PAL.

Colin

[Debbie]

Hi colin,

If your cables are not shorted, using audio cables is normal. I use them all the time. Proper 75 ohms cables give better result because they keep noise to the minimum. Look for the problem somewhere else. Drivers perhaps ?

Regards,

Debbie

[Fred H]

My set-up is:
1. -Composit Video Out from the BOB to VCR-SCART than the VCR RF Out to the TV-RF Input (Ant)
2. -Audio Out from Santa Cruz direct to VCR-SCART In (By-pass the BOB)
3. - Composit Video Input to BOB from VCR-SCART Out, or Composite Video to the BOB from analog camcorder (switch box or replug)
4. -Audio Input to BOB from VCR-SCART Out, or audio from analog camcorder (switch box or replug)

The SCART is a 6-lead to 1-SCART (In/Out) system, no SCART swtch to In/Out.

I made the audio bypass over the BOB because I found that, in W98SE, the audio signal disturbs the video in the BOB, especially when I’ve sent MPEG video to the VCR followed by sending MJPEG video. The card (maybe the drivers) has difficulty to switch over from different format.

The B/W issue comes randomly in W2K or Win XP and the card switches automatically from PAL to NTSC. If the TV shows B/W or sync errors than I am sure it switched over to NTSC and I must change it, manualy, back to PAL.
Resetting to PAL, which is easy but irritating in W2K, cures the problem and I can record in colour.

In Win XP, it is very difficult to reset to PAL. XP tries to send the damn error report to M$ and exits the setup holding the NTSC. Only after a lot of try the card switches back to PAL and the right colours appear.

The drivers in W2K are PD 5.39 + VT 2.04 (leaked).
In XP only the PD 5.39 + VT 2.04 (final) works.

Fred H

[colinbr]

Well, I've tried using the "correct" video cable to carry the composite signal, but it's made no difference - I'm still recording monochrome.

I am running Windows 2000, so I rebooted into windows 98 and tried again (in case it was a Windows 2000 problem). But I am still getting monochrome recordings.

I am at the point of giving up, but this may mean getting a replacement G450eTV. I've had the card for several months and have only just started to use the tv output facility, so it's unlikely the mail order place would swap or refund on it. I'll probably have to rely on the "manufacturers warranty". Has anyone returned a faulty item to Matrox and had no problems getting a replacement or refund (in the UK)?

Colin