Parhelia and editing.....

[dchip]

miya, I see what you mean. It would appear that the video editor would still be left wanting, even though the Parhelia has three heads. The triple screen panorama would not benefit me either unless one of those screens lets me see what my video really looks like in the TV world so I can adjust color, brightness, etc.

As far as working with 3-D effects in video goes, the Parhelia might still have some advantages if the quality is as good as the preliminary reports say.

[Brian Ellis]

I apologise for the price error, induced by the article which was cited above.

However, as I said, whether the price is $450 or 399, is immaterial. It is, by far, too expensive for non-gamers who are seeking the ultimate experience. This card is not addressing the video market, full stop, period.

Between 1984 and 1999, I was heavily involved in the CAD for electronics business. About 1988, we brought out what we thought was a breakthrough. By putting in a mono Hercules card and an S3 colour card, we could use the colour, at 1024 x 768 x 16 on a 21" Hitachi monitor for full screen display of the work we were doing, while all the menus were on the mono 14" screen (this was, of course, under DOS). Hundreds of users rushed to install this, which was technically superb, rather than reduce their working space by having a choice of edge, top or floating menus on the single 21" colour screen. Six months later, they had all reverted to the single screen. Why? Simply because constantly changing the neck position and the focus between two screens is, by far, too tiring, when you are working 8 or 10 hours per day in front of the screen. Simple ergonomics. I believe that splitting the timeline across three screens will have the same effect.

Since putting in the G-550, I have a second screen, but I rarely use it (I occasionally put the Preview window on it at full screen, when I am looking for a small detail). I originally thought about having a wide timeline, but I soon reverted to the single-screen solution for 95% of the time.

Doc may think I'm a Luddite stick-in-the-mud while he is rejoicing in the features of his new super-duper toy. So be it. My view is that it's a lot of spondulacks for very little, unless you enjoy Quaking in your shoes with three 26" flat panels. And I cannot see that Matrox' main market, corporate computers, is going to go head-over-heels over Parhelia, either.

[Dr Mordrid]

For editing in DV Parhelia rocks.

With most cams you can pass previews throught IEEE-1394 to the camera then to a preview monitor on its s-video or composite port, so DVDMAX isn't really necessary.

Elie: with you're using triplehead can't you use the RT's analog output for previews?

Dr. Mordrid

[miya]

> For editing in DV Parhelia rocks.

Could you qualify this statement please? I see no features on Parhelia that relate at all to DV. As previously stated by myself and others, 2 screens is more than enough real estate for editing. Is there anything else that Parhelia can offer those of us interested in video?

Of course, I'll probably be getting one anyway.

[Dr Mordrid]

Would you really want to go back to using Photoshop at 800x600 after using it at 1280x1024 or greater? I think not. This is exactly how I feel about working in triplehead during edits.

One biggie is when editing in single frame resolution and want to work on a long sequence without scrolling. Triplehead is great for this since you can have ~2 minute onscreen at once. I consider that a major advantage.

That long timeline grows on you very quickly, as does having room to have every editing window open and being able to expand the production library in MSPro or the effects lists in Premiere to where you don't have to scroll through them.

Another advantage comes if you use DVDMAX. Export quality here has gone up here considerably due the new 10 bit TV/Video encoder stage of the Parhelia GPU.

This is not your G400/450/550's DVDMAX.

Dr. Mordrid

[Marshmallowman]

two hardware overlays must be nice as well

[Elie]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid


Elie: with you're using triplehead can't you use the RT's analog output for previews?

Dr. Mordrid

OK if you mean DVD Max out via the RT's BOB, you can't.
However if you're in TH mode, you can still edit and output via the BOB as you would normally in DH or SH mode.

Cheers,
Elie

[Greebe]

Brian comparing what you had "in the day" hardly equates to anything now. What was the fancy 21" monitor running 1024x768 res refresh rate at back then? 56Hz? 60Hz? Then pairing it upto another flicker prone monochrome and your complaining that your clients couldn't hack it because of unergonomic strain on their eyes because of the difference in the distance was different to each?!

Maybe then, but totally untrue today.

I've been using dualhead with a 21" flicker free monitor @1600x1200 res and a old 15" @1024x768 for years now and don't experience any eye stain at all and I'm at this computer >12 hours a day!

Now with Parhelia installed I'm scrambling to get my identical 21" connected (I'll be repairing it asap, just waiting on the service manual)
I want more desktop real estate, lots more! To be sure P has the best 2D and 3D image quality bar none. It has speed and features that can't be beat. I fits the bill in what I'm looking for, maybe not 100% but it sure comes closer than anything the competition will have on the market anytime soon.

While I'm at it if all this bugs you, me thinks it all boils down to jealousy of sorts and or unproven usability in your eyes only based on an ancient experience (which it is in computer terms). Cad heads eat up the G400/G450/G550 as do photochoppers and the like, so what makes this one so bloody much different (other than $)? You can't afford, that's a shame, REALLY! If you had P and even three decient 17" monitors you would be in heaven. Honest!

[Brian Ellis]

Greebe

Sorry, 75 Hz! I still have one of these 21" Hitachi monitors working every day, without any problems. OK, it has a coarser dot pitch (0.28 mm) compared with my more modern Nokia Multigraph (0.25 mm) 21" but it has a more brilliant image. The biggest disadvantage of the Hitachi is a slightly greater screen curvature and a smaller diagonal of useful space (plus the fact that it weighs a tonne ). But it ain't bad, at all, for something that has kept going on and on and on (touch wood) for 14 years.

You missed the point, though: it was muscular fatigue the CAD users complained about most. Probably something akin to the Wimbledon neck syndrome suffered by the umpire on his perch and spectators close to the mid-court. This is something very real. No amount of technological advance can sort that out.

I agree that fixating ones eyes on a single screen can also be tiring, but I have always made a point of looking out the window at the distant mountains for a minute every 15 minutes or so.

It's rather like a neighbour here who is immensely proud of his new 54" projection TV, in a room where he cannot sit more than about 2 m away from it! Bigger is not always better. But then he also has the biggest car (4 litre engine, to commute 20-odd km to work on roads with 80/100 km/h speed limits) in the neighbourhood, the biggest lawn mower and the biggest everything.

We would all like more real estate, but if I won the lottery, I wouldn't go for a triple-screen set-up: I'd buy one of those horrendously expensive Sony 26" flat screens which gives 87% more quality real estate, compared to a 21". However, that is not likely to be as I think the last time I bought a lottery ticket must have been 25 years ago

And it's neither jealousy (why should I be jealous for something that I would not buy, in any case?) or physical limitations, even if I am old. I'm certainly not rich, although comfortable on my retirement pensions, and all my purchases, in whatever field, are relatively modest, but never bottom-of-the range. My car is a Japanese 2 litre model which does everything that I'm legally able to on this island and is reliable. I could have bought a Ferrari Testarossa, but would it have got me to the other end of the island any faster, with less fatigue (or causing less pollution)? I'm not at all jealous of the Ferrari-owners, I just think they are stupid show-offs (anyway, you need two, as one will be being repaired at any given moment).

The difference between thee and me, Greebe (and Doc), is one of basic philosophy. But there is one thing that does bug me and that is having Parhelia commercially advertised by a throat-ramming method on a technical forum by those who are privileged enough to receive them before they are available in the shops. I would have thought a little modesty and decorum would have been de rigueur. Little things like bolding "Parhelia 128" in your hardware list really grate. Why that and not your TEAC 3.5" floppy drive? I've no objection to anyone recounting their experience with any hardware or software but empty publicity like, "For editing in DV Parhelia rocks." with no substantiation is close to the limit.

If you don't agree with what I say, that is your privilege but remember the last words in your message: "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -- Dr. Seuss

Best regards,

[DentyCracker]

Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
Sorry if that's a little too crass, but getting upset at bolding. That is just a bit too petulant.
Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

[Dr Mordrid]

Elie;

With your RT-2500 can't you disable DigiCtrl and then activate DVDMAX when you need to export non-RT formats to analog?

Brian;

Your arguement is blind opinion without factual basis or even a real-world point of personan reference.

Those of us with Parhelias are trying to share our *real world* experiences with people so they can get an idea of how our workflow has changed. It has changed; very much for the better.

I'm sure Elie will confirm that editing in triplehead is a very enlightening experience that you can't imagine until you've been there. That long timeline is just too useful, as is the ability to arrange dialogs in ways you can't on a dual or single display.

I'm also sure that my fellow beta-boyz would agree that a separate analog out should be on the short list for future Parhelias, but one thing at a time. While this is an important feature for some it's not for those using DV cams with passthrough (most) or editing cards with their own vidouts.

That you even obliquely question our motives in reporting our experiences I find insulting.

Dr. Mordrid

[Greebe]

You know Brian, I too am getting up there in years. I'm near sighted and it's getting worse. And I myself do walk away from the computers glaring in my face to enjoy what is outside in the real world. Heck there's an Otter in the lake out back and my Orange trees are budding up even more due to the rains we've had reciently. All of these things help me reduce visual fatigue, not to mention that I am conscous of what is going on around me. I agree with Doc here, your bashing something you have no personal experience with nor are you even considering the fact that our NDA's do limit all that we can say at this time and we're just screaming to speakout albiet limitedly atm.

It's not me that misinterperated what was said, but you. No sir this is not... "with no substantiation is close to the limit." It's you becoming so bloody solidified in your position that you can't see the light of day. It's just a man that's so fixiated in his own beliefs that he's exceedingly becoming a crass old fart.

I have no disrespect toward you or your experience (quite the opposite actually), but it's quite obvious that you feel that way toward myself, Doc and others.

Sorry to waste your time in an attempt to help you & others see the advantages that this card has brought to the market(and we're not even scratching the surface!)... maybe someday you'll find that dream card that fills your bill at under $100.

One last thing, that crack about Dr. Seuss... so what your sayiing is that you don't matter. Which I guess makes all the above moot. How sad

[Elie]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
Elie;

With your RT-2500 can't you disable DigiCtrl and then activate DVDMAX when you need to export non-RT formats to analog?

Brian;

Your arguement is blind opinion without factual basis or even a real-world point of personan reference.

Those of us with Parhelias are trying to share our *real world* experiences with people so they can get an idea of how our workflow has changed. It has changed; very much for the better.

I'm sure Elie will confirm that editing in triplehead is a very enlightening experience that you can't imagine until you've been there. That long timeline is just too useful, as is the ability to arrange dialogs in ways you can't on a dual or single display.

I'm also sure that my fellow beta-boyz would agree that a separate analog out should be on the short list for future Parhelias, but one thing at a time. While this is an important feature for some it's not for those using DV cams with passthrough (most) or editing cards with their own vidouts.

That you even obliquely question our motives in reporting our experiences I find insulting.

Dr. Mordrid

Yes you can disable DigiCtrl but you won't get the DVD Max option in PD anymore, they really trimmed down the version of PD included with MVT 3.1b.

But that doesn't mean you can't install a different version overtop

Actually what I'll do is take a screen shot of Premiere in TH mode and post it here!

Stay tooned!

Cheers,
Elie

[Dr Mordrid]

Of course I was tweaking you for the readers benefit....

The method I use to get the benefit of both systems (DVDMAX and the RT's) is to create a dualboot or use removable drives (better IMHO).

If I'm editing in the RT and plan on using it for analog exports then I use that installation. The RT's have their own G-chip for analog outputs. If I plan on using my DV cams passthrough with other software (MSPro, VS6 etc.) then there is also no need to exit triplehead for DVDMAX.

If I am planning on exporting to analog using something other than the RT's facilities or the DV cams passthrough then I boot into an installation dedicated to DVDMAX capable software.

Using dualboot or removeable drives provides the actual capability, but having a separate video drive or RAID is essential.

You can get removable drive bays for as little as $25-30 and extra caddys for about $10-15 each.

I also use removable drives for betats so "normal" installations aren't affected by betaware.

As far as overlays go, the Parhelia can do overlays to all 3 monitors. 2 get hardware and one gets software, but on mysystems there is little difference.

Dr. Mordrid

[dchip]

I was thinking some the past couple of days about a timeline stretched across three monitors and I just can't get my brain attached to that. I now have two 17" monitors on Matrox G550 and I like the setup. I would like to replace the CRT's with LCD's as money permits, but overall it is a good setup.

Anyhow, I don't use the 2nd monitor to stretch out the timeline. Instead I use it for the preview when I don't have the camcorder hooked up to preview externally. I also undock and drag other frequently-used windows to the second monitor so the first monitor can have the timeline stretched all the way across the top and then a number of other tracks displayed below it. Seeing all my tracks on the screen at once is heavenly.

I have been trying to see the advantage of being able to see 3 full monitors worth of horizontal timeline and I just can't. When it comes to video editing it is the vertical, not the horizontal plane that gives me a working advantage. Perhaps the way others work would benefit from being able to see a 3-monitor stretch of timeline. For me it would not help.