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  • Premiere & SSE/3DNow!? Got an answer....

    My question;

    Does Premiere 6.5 support SSE/SSE2/Advanced 3DNow!? If so what portions of the program support them?

    I ask because those editing programs that do; Vegas Video and MSPro, render VERY much faster given the same codec or plugin.


    The answer:

    "Premiere makes use of Streaming SIMD Extensions where appropriate, primarily in DirectShow footage encode and decode."

    In other words the main parts of the program don't use 'em. Vegas and MSPro use 'em extensively, which is why they're faster across the board.

    "No, we don't do use any graphics board-specific optimizations, though our OEMs and developers are free to do so."

    It sounds like he thinks Advanced 3DNow is something for graphics cards

    "Keep in mind that much of Premiere's footage handling fully support multiple CPUs, which far outstrips the incremental gains to be made by implementing 3DNow, ATI, or other graphics-card-flavor-of-the-month-specific processor instructions."

    They obviously haven't been to the MSPro-Premiere benchmark page or heard the user complaints about how few of Premiere's functions actually benefit from their dualie "support".

    "Our plug-in APIs allow hardware manufacturers to take over all aspects of footage handling, timeline management, and filtering. The results exceed what we could do without intimate knowledge of their hardware. Also, Company ABC might not appreciate Adobe optimizing for Company XYZ's hardware. In scenarios like this, it's best for us to remain "Switzerland"."

    Again they're missing the point. It's not video card or editing card hardware optimizations that are germain, it's how fast Premiere itself works internally.

    Fast rendering it isn't unless you spend $1000+ on a decent realtime board, and even then some operations are done at less than turtle speed.

    "Promises made by various marketing departments aside, it will be a while before a software-only video system can compete with dedicated, integrated hardware solutions (like the fine boards from Matrox)."

    I'm sure Jerry Jones has an answer for this one

    "Yikes, I just used the word "solutions" in a sentence, and I wasn't being sarcastic! Time for that marketing job...

    Hope this helps explain Premiere's approach. Feel free to contact Zac or I directly with any API-specific technical questions."


    That's it. Premiere renders slow as mud and I don't think they plan on doing anything about it.

    Dr. Mordrid
    Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 29 July 2002, 14:31.
    Dr. Mordrid
    ----------------------------
    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  • #2
    Great detective work, Terry!


    On the topic of hardware real time, I have the following opinion:


    a. I am not going to buy a hardware real time board now because - for my specific needs - it simply isn't necessary to have right now.


    b. I truly believe that 64-bit processors combined with 64-bit Windows combined with 64-bit video editors will be a reality within one year.


    In other words, I am betting that the 64-bit Intel Itanium and AMD Opteron/Clawhammer processors are going to revolutionize SOFTWARE real time.


    So I'm saving my pennies NOW for my next computer workstation, which will be a 64-bit workstation.


    However, if I were wanting real time NOW, I would buy the Matrox RT.X100 (or .x10) in a heartbeat.


    The new Matrox board is clearly superior to the real time boards fielded by competitors.


    Its specifications seem more impressive than those of the Canopus DVRexRT Pro.


    It's also clearly superior to the Canopus DV Storm.


    As for the Canopus DV RaptorRT, the Pinnacle DV500, the Pinnacle Pro One, the Matrox RT2000/2500 boards:


    I think they're all practically obsolete now.


    Here's something that ULEAD must surely know from a competitive standpoint:


    Sonic Foundry is already working on a 64-bit version of Vegas Video.


    That's right!





    Charlie White writes in the above article:


    "The real fun starts when applications written specifically for IA-64 are released."


    "And if what I saw at last summer's SIGGRAPH is any indication, it won't be long now -- there are a few companies working on this -- namely Discreet, SONIC FOUNDRY (with its Vegas Video 64 application), Messiah Project, NewTek, Next Limit, Reyes Infografica, Right Hemisphere, and Softimage."


    "...there are many more in development that I can't really talk about or their creators would come over here to the Midwest Test Facility and shoot me."


    While I am not a Vegas Video user, personally, I have to admit they deserve a lot of credit for their current real time preview to Firewire feature, which will no doubt be enhanced tremendously in the forthcoming version of Vegas Video that will be designed to run on a 64-bit processor.


    :-)


    There's no question that ULEAD, however, has chosen the right course where SSE2 and 3DNow! are concerned as our chart here...





    ...clearly reveals that MediaStudio Pro is the fastest NLE in the sub-$1,000 price range, CURRENTLY.


    But the real news is yet to come in connection with 64-bit processors...


    I found it very interesting to read the quote in the following article:





    "By virtue of technology improvement alone, AMD asserts, PCs with 4GB or more of memory will begin arriving in 2004."


    But here was the really interesting quote:


    "Games could also be written to run faster by loading COMPLETELY INTO MEMORY..."


    "...then automatically expanding data caches--stores which hold often-used information--to fill the available memory space."


    I suspect it might be possible to do the same thing with a video editing application.


    The possibilities are quite intriguing.


    I've been reading a lot about the advantages that 64-chips provide.


    One of the major advantages is their ability to directly address more than 4gb of memory.


    Current 32-bit processors can only *directly address* 4gb of memory.


    It's true that today's 32-bit servers can be loaded up with up to 64gb of memory.


    But that doesn't mean the processor is *directly addressing* 64gb of memory.


    As Intel explains:


    >Beginning with the Pentium Pro
    >processor, the IA-32 architecture
    >supports addressing of up to
    >64 GBytes (2 36 bytes) of PHYSICAL
    >memory.

    >A PROGRAM OR TASK CANNOT ADDRESS LOCATIONS
    >IN THIS ADDRESS SPACE DIRECTLY.

    >Instead it addresses individual LINEAR
    >address spaces of up to 4 GBytes that
    >are mapped to the larger 64-GByte
    >physical address space through the
    >processor's virtual memory management
    >mechanism.





    (Page 53)


    Even with this workaround, it is still true that 32-bit processors can only *directly access* 4gb of memory maximum:


    "Any task or program running on an IA-32 processor can address a linear address space of up to 4 GBytes."


    (Page 48)


    Confirmed by Anandtech here:





    "One of the biggest benefits of 64-bit processors is their ability to address beyond 4GB of memory, a limitation of 32-bit processors (2^32 bytes)."


    "This means that 64-bit microprocessors will be able to address more than 18,446,744,073GB of memory."


    That's an amazing capability.


    But it's also probable that 64-bit future software editors will require workstations that can make use of 4gb of memory... and beyond.


    That sounds like a lot now, but it wasn't too long ago that we were using computers that ran on only 128mb of ram.


    Times change.


    :-)


    Jerry Jones

    Last edited by Jerry Jones; 29 July 2002, 16:10.

    Comment


    • #3
      My Amiga Video Toasters can edit just fine with 12 and 24 megs respectively

      Dr. Mordrid
      Dr. Mordrid
      ----------------------------
      An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

      I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

      Comment


      • #4
        Now *that* is efficient use of code!

        No doubt about it!

        :-)

        Jerry Jones

        Comment


        • #5
          This very interesting post was made to rec.video.desktop - right out of the blue - by Ph.D. physicist and software programmer Martin Atkinson-Barr.

          (He's the guy who caught the Intel Pentium Pro/Pentium II calculation bug.)

          Anyway, he's a very interesting guy and he decided to chime in on the subject of MediaStudio Pro and the 64-bit AMD processors:

          Martin Atkinson-Barr <mcmab@peoplepc.com> wrote:

          > It's true that these new AMD
          > processors can address more
          > memory than we'll probably
          > ever need (48 physical address
          > lines in the first incarnation) and
          > its true that processes under
          > 32-bit Windows are limited to 2Gb
          > of address space - some of the
          > rest is used by memory-mapped
          > hardware.

          > But 64-bits doesn't just mean
          > 64-bits of address space - it also
          > means that data can be processed
          > in 64-bit, rather than 32-bit chunks.

          > MOVing a string 64-bits at a time is
          > a lot faster than doing it 32-bits at
          > a time.

          > But the important things in the
          > Hammer chips are much better
          > than this.

          > AMD has refined the whole x86
          > architecture in 64-bit mode. You
          > get 2x as many general purpose
          > registers (and all are now 64-bits
          > wide so you have 4x the register
          > space), they doubled the number
          > of XMM registers from 8 to 16
          > (and boy you need those for SSE
          > programming), they added
          > instruction-pointer relative
          > addressing (OK saves one
          > general purpose register), they
          > dropped memory latency by
          > putting the memory controller
          > on-chip and lastly - they gave it
          > hypertransport to speed that
          > video data everywhere on the PC.

          > The hammer chips will have a
          > dramatic impact on video editing,
          > much more than just increasing
          > the memory space.

          > Even 32-bit programs, like
          > Ulead's current ones, will see a
          > major speed-up when they are
          > run on a 64-bit O/S (Microsoft
          > has promised 64-bit Windows for
          > the Hammer) because all the
          > system calls will be handled in
          > 64-bit mode.

          > When Ulead makes a 64-bit
          > version of their editing software
          > it will really shine (demos of the
          > Hammer have already shown
          > outstanding performance).

          Kind of makes my mouth water.

          :-)

          Jerry Jones

          Comment


          • #6
            Yup....a 64 bit (and even better: multiprocessor capable) version of MediaStudio Pro would be MURDER on Operon systems.

            Maybe then they could enable some form of anisotropic and bi-cubic filtration of overlays & effects as well so that the image quality can keep up with the Matrox RT.X cards.

            Dr. Mordrid
            Dr. Mordrid
            ----------------------------
            An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

            I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

            Comment


            • #7
              Jeez, that is impressive sounding.

              I wonder what kind of clock speeds they are going to start with and if they have found a solution to heat other than an a$$load of fans. I really think that there is going to have to be a major breakthrough in cooling techniques before they can go too much further. Maybe a watercooling system from a major manufacturer isn't too far down the road. I do know that smaller die processes help to cool and the new XP are a lot cooler than the older Athlons, but they are still little spaceheaters.
              WinXP Pro SP2 ABIT IC7 Intel P4 3.0E 1024M Corsair PC3200 DCDDR ATI AIW x800XT 2 Samsung SV1204H 120G HDs AudioTrak Prodigy 7.1 3Com NIC Cendyne DVR-105 DVD burner LG DVD/CD-RW burner Fortron FSP-300-60ATV PSU Cooled by Zalman Altec Lansing MX-5021

              Comment


              • #8
                I have e-mailed the key people of Ulead in Taiwan... urging them to continue their work on 64-bit code for a future version of MediaStudio.

                In the meantime, I'm saving my money for a dedicated 64-bit AMD video editing system to run on 64-bit Windows.

                This is going to be awesome.

                Jerry Jones

                Comment


                • #9
                  Don't be suprised if the core clocks on 64 bit processors aren't as fast as you're used to on 32 bit CPU's. This will be another of those cases where clock speed will not be an accurate indicator of overall speed.

                  Dr. Mordrid
                  Dr. Mordrid
                  ----------------------------
                  An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                  I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It's also worth noting that I have two systems at home that I've built recently.

                    One of them built around an AMD Athlon 1.4ghz Thunderbird.

                    The other built around an AMD Athlon XP2000+.

                    When I consider the fact a 64-bit Windows version running on an AMD 64-bit chip is going to be available within a year...

                    ...I just can't help but wonder...

                    ...will my two relatively recently-built 32-bit systems seem like utter dinosaurs WITHIN A YEAR????

                    Sadly... the answer is YES.

                    :-(

                    Jerry Jones

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yup....it appears that Moore's Law is still in effect

                      Dr. Mordrid
                      Dr. Mordrid
                      ----------------------------
                      An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                      I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        AMD's recent Computex Taipei PDF confirms the Opteron 64-bit processors will start shipping in the first half of 2003 (page 6 of 22):

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