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**puar** · 6 August 2002, 10:11

Answer to my own problem

Well, of course the problem just HAD to be SP3. Unfortunately I couldn't uninstall it correctly, so I had to reinstall Windows. Luckily, I just reinstalled windows over itself as an upgrade to keep whatever programs I had installed still installed.

I guess it was some weird problem with windows installer, or the type of windows installer used for that *.exe. Old old video tools would install (the ones that were zipped up), but not this self-extracting type executable. I think it's a problem with *.msi, but I'm actually not even sure what that means, I think I just stumbled into that in some of my event logs.

So another warning on top of current warnings to stay away from SP3.

**Dr Mordrid** · 6 August 2002, 18:51

I agree. Between induced incompatabilities with previously issued device drivers you also have the fact that SP3 opens up your system for M$ to "administer". No way Jose'.

Dr. Mordrid

**LvR** · 6 August 2002, 23:05

Come on!

puar
Based on a single installation of W2K that you are experiencing problems on, you are really able to state with confidence that SP3 is/was the problem? - come on man.

/rant on/
1. So you " couldn't uninstall it correctly"! - what the heck does that mean?. Did you make a backup of the current system (pre SP3) in case you wanted to uninstall it as suggested by MS, and were you not able to use that to revert to a working setup?. Did you have another form of backup - ie- Ghost or MSBackup?

On a range of hardware including various Matrox, Pinnacle and ATI products running W2K on 37 machines ranging from P3 500s to the current P4 2.2s, every single installation we did, we were able to be reverse, yet you can not on a single itteration, and therefore feel it has to be SP3?. I have 37 examples of installations with no hassles that says you are possibly wrong.

just reinstalled windows over itself

2. Exactly how did you achieve this with W2K? - you are able to "recover" a current corrupt installation to get it working again (by hopefully only restoring a few critical OS files), but you cannot install W2K over itself without losing your apps/progs.

3."Upgrade" as a faultfinding technique is a crap-shoot, at best, and to draw definitive conclusions from that is no less.

/rant off/

Dr Mordrid

I agree. Between induced incompatabilities with previously issued device drivers you also.............................

That is a cut-your-nose-to-spite-your-face type of argument. This thread is basically the first attempt - and bad at that - that I have seen where SP3 is blamed for driver incompatibilities. (Granted I dont know of all possible reports out there, but on the other hand I am not totally ignorant either)

The same generalized argument (that has in most cases been proven to be bad) has also been used for the release of SP1 and SP2, yet now suddenly SP2 is the flavor of the day just because it has solved bugs that were affecting us in an obvious way - who says that there are no real lurking bugs being addressed with SP3? (and there is because no software will ever be perfect). I am sure that there are those unlucky souls out there that, due to their usage patterns differing from ours (the happy with SP2 bunch), are quite eagerly awaiting the arrival of SP3 while living in the hope that the bugs they experience in their environment is also addressed.

Just like you and lots of other users, I happen to also be a great fan of SP2 with no bugs (that is left in W2K for sure!) that I know of adversely affecting me.

Just like you I dont like the EULA. I suspect your current negative sentiment towards SP3 is based mainly on the contents and implications of the EULA - but that is no valid technical reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

**puar** · 6 August 2002, 23:58

whoah.

well... didn't mean to hit a sore note with that post...

1) i did back up my files for previous service packs.

2) when i said i had problems uninstalled sp3, specifically when i uninstalled sp3, some things stopped working, for example, the dialog box for add/remove programs stopped working. (it would open, but with a blank window)

3) sure, reinstalling/upgrading windows 2000 isn't the best way to fix things or troubleshoot, but it worked for me. i was too lazy to do a complete format/reinstall. it actually did keep most of the programs loaded, with the exception of office. that had to be reinstalled.

(this was originally done a fresh install of win2k.)

4) the way i concluded that sp3 or something related to sp3 was the problem includes 3 things:

a) using sp3 instead of sp2 was the only variable between between getting the drivers to install, and not getting the drivers installed. everything else was identical.

b) the only message in my event viewer was related to some sort of windows installer problem (similar to the error message upon failure of driver installation). there was an article in the knowledge base on microsoft's site that talked about a windows installer problem AND sp3. it wasn't the exact same problem that i had, but it seemed related and close enough for me to claim sp3 as the source of the problem.

c) i've never had problems installing matrox drivers for my rainbow runner g in the past in windows 2000, even in non-ideal conditions. for example, i installed the rainbow runner with my pci g200 and had an nvidia card in my agp slot. after a ton of blue screens and some tweaking i did get it to work. anyways, this wasn't even a problem with getting the drivers to work, it was getting the installer to work at all. sounds windows related to me.

i can't remember the rest of your post, but i think i hit my major points. i'm sorry if i offended you, but honestly, i did do SOME research before completely blaming service pack 3.

I didn't mean to sound like i was blatantly accuse it without doing some sniffing.

if you love sp3, great for you. for me, it just happened to cause me problems, and if the point of this forum is to help other people, who may in the future have similar problems, then that's what i was trying to do. I tried to give my opinion of what caused my problem.

puar

**Dr Mordrid** · 7 August 2002, 00:12

LvR;

That is a cut-your-nose-to-spite-your-face type of argument.

Hardly.

AFAIK SP1 and SP2 did not introduce surveillance "features" allowing M$ to have unannounced access to your system. This alone is more than enough reason to keep it off MY systems absent some other overwhelming advantage. So far I don't see any as my Win2K-SP2 systems are working perfectly for their intended purposes; editing and multimedia generation, without SP3.

Here in the States we have a saying that covers this kind of thing;

IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!

Works for me save for one circumstance.....betatesting....and that gets done on a removable boot drive to keep the side-effects from affecting real-world usage until the new update "proves" itself.

I don't think most "normal" users want to go this far and will wait for others who do it all the time to offer their reports. I support them.

Dr. Mordrid

**LvR** · 7 August 2002, 01:09

puar;

Just like Doc, I also support the reporting of experiences by "abnormal" users

Not a sore point, and also not in love with SP3 at all (and neither MS for that matter) - I hate any SPs, as its normally an indication that somebody has not been their work properly. Having said that, there are instances where changing technology or industry developments require a SP to be issued. What we have here with SP3 is most likely a combination of both.

I may have flown off the handle there, but some of my dipstick customers read these forums as well, and I often have to do some serious orientation with a rather long 2x4 around their ears for an extended period of time because they take what is posted on a thread like this to be gospel.

The 8 machines I had quick access to now, all have working and normal "add/remove programs" dialogue boxes after uninstalling SP3.

Given your second post, I can follow your reasoning to arrive at the conclusion, but is it not possible that you had a wonky W2K installation to start off with and that the combination of SP3 with that caused the hickup?. Have you tried Ghosting that working drive now, and then going through the SP3 installation again to see if the hassle is repeatable?

Dr Mordrid

Cant see where you disagree with anything I said if you read carefully and not take things out of context.

Babies and bathwater.......

**puar** · 7 August 2002, 02:10

I could ghost the drive and retry it. I'll do it if anyone is truly curious if SP3 is the absolute, without a doubt culprit. i'm lazy though.

puar

**LvR** · 7 August 2002, 04:25

No need for that if you dont have the time, but thanks for the offer.

The mere presence of the thread and the issues will make good reading somewhere in the future I am sure.

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