No digital output from DVD?

[John Wray]

I just created my first DVD. I used some video I'd captured with my old Marvel G400-TV (using the PicVideo CODEC to play back on my new system that doesn't have a Marvel). I used virtualDub frameserving to TMPGEnc to encode the MPEG-2, using TMPGEnc's built-in NTSC DVD template, then DVD MovieFactory to author the DVD, finally writing to DVD-R on my Panasonic LF-D321U DVD-RAM/-R drive. I had no video problems playing back the DVD-R on my JVC standalone DVD player, but I did get some strangeness on the audio. I only seem to be getting audio out of the DVD player's analog outputs; the digital output seems to have no signal.

Is there some flag that I (or DVD MovieFactory) should be setting during the authoring process to enable digital output?

I must say, I'm not terribly impressed with DVD MovieFactory:

<ul>
<li>It crashes frequently on my WinXP system
<li>the choices for menus are limited (for example, I'd like to encode two or three separate programs on a DVD-R, and create a top-level menu to select one of the programs, and then offer to either play the selected program, or jump to a chapter within the program. As far as I can see, I'm limited to a single-level menu with DVD MovieFactory)
<li>the menus that you can create are inflexible (you can choose a background picture for a menu, but you can't move the menu options around to avoid obscuring the picture)
<li>The chapters don't always link to the correct places in the video. Sometimes the position seems right, sometimes it seems to go to the frame that was used for the chapter's menu item, and sometimes it appears to go to a random point in the video.
</ul>


Presumably DVD Workshop would let me do what I want? Is there anything less expensive that would let me create more customized (and working) menus?

John

[BrianP]

Well, YGWYPF (You Get What You Pay For). Some features are just beyond the scope of inexpensive software. Even a $1000+ program like ReelDVD doesn't do more than one menu.

Much as it pains me to say it, if you want a DVD authoring program that Does It All, get DVD Studio Pro. The bad news: it only runs on Macs.

As for the chapter links, be aware that you can't just link to any old frame on a DVD. The chapter link will find the closest I frame (part of the MPEG stream), and usually that is +/- about 8 frames. That's the general reason behind it, someone can correct me on the specifics.

[John Wray]

Originally posted by BrianP
As for the chapter links, be aware that you can't just link to any old frame on a DVD. The chapter link will find the closest I frame (part of the MPEG stream), and usually that is +/- about 8 frames. That's the general reason behind it, someone can correct me on the specifics.

Yes, I realize you can only jump to I-frames (or at least, I do now I think about it). But I'm not seeing positioning errors of +/- a few frames; it's more like +/- 2 minutes! I think it might be triggered by choosing a different frame to display as the menu item (compared with the frame the you want the menu item to actually take you to), as I think the chapters whose menu items I didn't try to change work properly.

Any ideas about the how to enable the digital PCM audio out?

John

[John Wray]

I may have figured out what's going on with my audio. I noticed that the TMPGEnc NTSC DVD template uses MPEG-1 for the audio stream (which I guess is good, since DVD MovieFactory insists on MPEG-1). I think the problem I'm running into may be due to my playback system not being set up for MPEG-1 audio (MPEG-1 audio isn't used in commercial NTSC DVDs, so I've probably never tried to play one before). There are various options in the DVD player setup to do with what to send to the digital output, and playing with these may fix things.

John

[wkulecz]

I can't say for sure, it may depend on the player, but on disks encoded with with Ulead MSP 6.51a using layer2 224 Kpbs stereo audio instead of PCM and authored with DVD MF, I do get audio out the digital "bitstream" on my Zenith DVD2381 player. Its not AC3 "surround" encoded but it sounds pretty good comming out the 5.1 system.

The bundled versions of Sonic MyDVD or DVDiT! appear to only do PCM audio -- meaining ~1.2GB of a two hour DVD is taken up by the audio!

--wally.

[Brian Ellis]

John

I think you're being a little tough on MovieFactory. After all, it is a cheapie. however:
1) I've never had it crash on me on W2k
2) Once you have your background picture, try all the different menu templates for the one that suits your image the best
3) It is a simple menu maker, not designed for making professional multi-level menus. If you buy a bike, do you get Rolls-Royce car?
4) I have never had a menu item link to the wrong place. I hate changing the thumbnails, but it is an evil necessity, although I've never slid one more than a minute or so from the bookmark. I use the L and R cursor keys to position the thumbnails. My last project involved 11/14 changes of thumbnail. They all key in perfectly to the bookmark.

I respectfully suggest that you reinstall to see whether that improves your MF problems.

I'm not competent to reply re your audio problem.

[dchip]

Re: No digital output from DVD?

Originally posted by John Wray

Is there anything less expensive that would let me create more customized (and working) menus?

John

I have been using Dazzle DVD Complete for a few months now and it works great. It does 36 chapters with motion menu buttons and MPEG Layer II compressed audio.

So far I have only used CBR at 8000kbps on projects of about 1hr15mins with one movie on each disc and using all 36 chapter points. It allows for multiple movies, overtures, etc.

For $99 (have seen it for less) Dazzle DVD Complete is a nice DVD maker. As for compatability, the DVD-R I have made with it have now been tried in lots of different players and so far no complaints. I think the handling of MPEG Layer II audio in standalone players is a lot more widely implemented than most realize.

Unfortunately, my projects are getting longer and longer so I will either have to reduce the bitrate a lot or purchase something that does AC-3 audio.

[John Wray]

Re: No digital output from DVD?

Originally posted by John Wray
<ul>
<li>the choices for menus are limited (for example, I'd like to encode two or three separate programs on a DVD-R, and create a top-level menu to select one of the programs, and then offer to either play the selected program, or jump to a chapter within the program. As far as I can see, I'm limited to a single-level menu with DVD MovieFactory)
</ul>

It turns out that DVD MovieFactory does support this! If you put multiple MPEG files onto a DVD, MovieFactory will automatically create a top-level menu that lets you choose which program to play, which then takes you to a program-specific chapter menu. I haven't actually burned a DVD that uses this yet (I have to re-encode some programs to make two of them fit onto a DVD-R), but if it works, the only feature I'm missing is the ability to drag the menu items around the screen to avoid obscuring the menu background picture. That and the extremely small limits on the text associated with menu items.

John

[wkulecz]

IF layer II audio is not causing compatability problems for you (so far it hasn't for me) I think you will have to reduce the bit rate. AC3 is 5.1 "surround" audio, I don't think its any more compressed than layer II, may in fact be a bit bigger. If you are using 224 Kbps stereo even if you drop it to zero its just not much more minutes of video.

--wally.

[dchip]

Interesting. I had somehow thought that AC-3 was compressed even greater than MPEG Layer II. Thanks for the clarification, Wally. That tells me I have the DVD authoring system I need. I just need to find that balance between bitrate and disc space to get the best quality.

For now, I want to avoid VBR. I tried a test DVD-RW disc using some VBR settings and it did glitch in my Pioneer DV-333. The same DVD-RW disc played fine using a CBR burn. Some players don't like VBR on DVD-R. If I can find a decent-looking CBR for about 1hr30min projects, I'll be happy for some time.

[BrianP]

Actually AC-3 isn't automatically "surround sound."

There is 2-channel AC-3 and 5.1 AC-3.

ReelDVD encodes the 2-channel variety (but can import 5.1). I believe DVD Studio Pro encodes 5.1. A few high end audio programs also do 5.1 encoding.

Here's Dolby's list of certified AC3 encoders:

http://www.dolby.com/digital/lcddpem.html

[Rob100]

I think it's fair to say that you will get better quality at the same bit rate using AC3 2/0 rather than layer 2 MPEG audio.

Rob.

[dchip]

Good point.

[wkulecz]

I'd need proof! AC3 without 5.1 is IMHO just pissing money away to Dolby Labs.

--wally.