Pioneer "Insiders guide to DVD recording"

[Dr Mordrid]

Might want to give this a read if you're thinking about buying a DVD recorder....

Insiders Guide to DVD Recording

Dr. Mordrid

[wkulecz]

<quote>

The question then becomes, what's the added benefit of anything beyond the three DVD Forum approved formats? To date, there has been no evidence that +R or +RW offer anything that can't already be accomplished in the genuine recordable DVD formats approved by the DVD Forum (see Technical Comparison: Where's the Plus in +RW).

<end quote>

I made a DVD-R with the Pioneer A03 back in October, sure ~90% of the players accepted it, but only ~30% played it back glitch-free!

I copied it to DVD+R and it plays glitch free is several of the same players the DVD-R glitches in! This is something "extra" to me! I've not yet encountered the reverse situation.

If anyone wants to see for themself send me a blank DVD+R, a burned DVD-R and a self-addressed stamped return mailer. I'll copy your DVD-R to DVD+R and you can test your own players!

--wally.

[Brian Ellis]

Thanks for pointing this out, Doc. Quite interesting, especially Consumer Demand and the Emerging Markets for Recordable DVD, which gives projections for the growth rate. This economy of scale should mean that DVD-RW units will become standard in any computer costing more than one kilobuck within a year or two and the media price should drop.

Regarding the -RW/+RW war, I won't predict a winner, but I hope -RW wins (cheaper media, better compatibility - and I don't like splinter groups!)

Certainly, I foresee the death of VHS within a few years, to be replaced by DVD-R (or +R) stand-alone recorders with all the current functionality of both VHS and DVD, and more. These should take off in a big way when the price is down to, say, $100 or so and the media to <$1 a go.

Wally: I have zero glitches with DVD-R, compatible with my Grundig stand-alone. I haven't tried it with any other players, as I don't need to. What seems evident that modern DVD stand-alones have a better data throughput rate than those of even, say, 6 or 12 months ago. I guess the manufacturers are using faster processors and possibly more memory. If you still have your AO-3-burned disk, try it with the latest crop of DVD players, and I think you'll find much more glitch-free performance.

[wkulecz]

I've a group of "early adopters" to try and keep happy. Neither format fills the bill.

I keep repeating myself, but unless you and your audiance are willing to buy new players if necessary, don't buy either!

The format war is a distraction from the fact that of the millions of DVD players in peoples homes right *now* I'd wager less that half will play burned disks correctly. As new players replace old the percentage will go up, but still the current situation is a travesty! Only HDTV looks to be a bigger mess!

Yes my DVD-R from October play correctly in most new players, my point is, when copied to DVD+R they play in two older players that the DVD-R wouldn't!

I'd advise waiting. There is a chipset that supports DVD-R and DVD+RW/R burning that should hit the market next year.


Having tried the stand alone DVD burners I'm not so confident they will ever get really cheap, they are only really useful with RW media. Making menus/editing is a button pushing marathon I can't see normal people puting up with! When Joe Blow discovers he can't copy his rented DVD, back to the store it'll go! I was at a party last week and rather technically sophisticated people were talking about DVD recorders and how they wanted to get one when they got "a little cheaper" so they could copy their DVDs for the kids -- they were shocked when I said that it wouldn't work. Ignoring "macrovision", most normal people don't know most DVD movies are dual layer and thus won't fit on a burned disk. Perhaps a Tivo-like device with built-in DVD burner will be the killer product if Hollywood doesn't take over the government.

--wally.

[Brian Ellis]

Wally

Sorry, must disagree.

a) the mass market is for "taping" broadcast TV, the same as it is for VHS (I'm waiting for that to be copy-protected ), not for copying rented DVDs
b) the average Joe Bloggs can't copy VHS tapes now, so why would he even think about being able to copy DVDs? In any case, he is unlikely to have a player AND a recorder
c) if the market were there, and Macrovision were overcome, it would be easy to make a super-DVD copier with a disk changer (and a hard disk buffer) so that one layer would be on #1 disk and the other on #2 disk, using current DVD-Rs, or +Rs, as this seems to be your predilection. However, there is no reason why a 2 layer DVD-R could not be developed. It would require 2 lasers of very different wavelengths for recording, but the technology is well on its way.
d) I feel that if DVD-R blanks came down to < $1, no-one would bother about erasing the more expensive -RW media.
e) The price will depend on the economy of scale but just think how much you paid for your first VCR and translate that to modern currency. It is only within the last few years that they have become really cheap. Also look at the price v. time curve for DVD stand-alone players. It is not unusual to see prices reduced from the initial price by a factor (in real money) of 20:1 in consumer electronics.

[dchip]

I use a Pioneer A04 with -RW to burn and test completed projects and -R for finalized disks. 100% compatability in numerous, recently-manufactured players. I have only tried the -RW in my Pioneer DV-333 and it plays perfectly.

One thing I am glad about is that I went the authoring route instead of standalone. The menus, chapters, and buttons have been the biggest selling point for my DVD-R productions.

[wkulecz]

Without the RW feature on the standalone recorders you are stuck with either: no chapter points, chapter points every N minutes, or babysitting the recorder and pressing a button at the appropreiate times.

In principle with the RW disks you can set chapter points at the start and end of commercials and set the chapter to "hidden". In practice its such a PITA, you might as well record SVHS and use FF. I quickly returned the Philips DVCR-985.

--wally.

[Jerry Jones]

I agree with what Brian said 100%.

I bought the Panasonic LF-D311 and the Panasonic LF-D321 models, which record to DVD-RAM and DVD-R, but not DVD-RW.

So far, I haven't missed DVD-RW at all.

My DVD-Rs *all* play on *my* DVD stand alone player(s) glitch-free and I'm very satisfied.

DVD-RAM is the often over-looked bonus of the Panasonic drives.

Unlike the first & second generation drives that burn to DVD+RW, DVD-RAM drives employ true *defect management* for rock-solid data and video storage.

The DVD+RW format is capable of supporting defect management, but I'm advised the first and second generation drives don't support it.

:-(

By the way, Panasonic will be shipping the new 'DVD Burner II' drive in October.

It burns to the following formats:

1. DVD-RAM
2. DVD-R
3. DVD-RW
4. CD-R
5. CD-RW

http://www.beststuff.com/article.php3?story_id=3520

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net