Video Editing Solution(?)

[Riddek]

Hi, I was wondering if someone could recommend the best video card(-$600) with great 2D performance and excellent video editing capabilities(clean, crisp video output)? I want a poor man's RT2000!

From what I can tell, the contenders are:
Matrox Marvel G400
Matrox G400 MAX & ? (maybe RRG?)
ATI All In Wonder Radeon (new reviews out)
Asus AGP-V7700 Deluxe

Did I miss anything? I'd like to have a G400 MAX(or G450 someday soon?) to take advantage of the DualHead feature if I can find a capable video capture card to compliment it.(is the RRG obsolete now? I understand Matrox is dicontinuing it)

I'd jump at the Marvel if it supported 2 CRTs. Do you think they'll release a G450 Marvel that does?

TV capabilities and 3D gaming are not major concerns. I want great 2D performance and high quality video input/output capabilities.
Any suggestions?

[Dr Mordrid]

The Marvel can be used with a second display adapter under Win98/98SE. It just has to be a PCI card and it's always best to stick with the same brand when doing this.

The old PCI Matrox Millennium-II works great. Just don't expect to find any Win2000 drivers for it

Also if you can find a G200 PCI display card that should also work and Win2000 drivers for it are on the Matrox driver site. Try here for the card;

http://shop.matrox.com/usa/products/...mary.asp?Dep=2

and here for the driver updates;

http://www.matrox.com/mga/drivers/la...ivers/home.htm

Dr. Mordrid



[This message has been edited by Dr Mordrid (edited 22 August 2000).]

[wkulecz]

Doc,

What is the basis for your recommendation that its "always best to stick with the same brand" for a secondary display on win98?

In my experience the only secondary display troubles I'm aware of (other that trying to use cards without proper win98 drivers!) is with two ATI cards. Must be exactly the same card using the same driver or else you get exposed to installation order issues leading to a big mess should you have installed the "wrong" one first.

What's wrong with the "certified" driver for G200 Millineum distributed with w2k?

I'm using it with a G200 AGP as secondary and ATI AIW Pro as primary display. There are lots of issues with the ATI driver (capture), but the only glitch I've seen with the G200 is a cosmetic bug tickled when AVI_IO opens (a gray bar appears across the G200 display where the AVI_IO menu bar opens on the ATI display). Could be AVI_IO, or the AIW, driver, or the Matrox driver. But given the problems with the AIW capture, I'm loathe to try a non-certified w2k driver for the G200.

--wally.

[Dr Mordrid]

I can sum it up in one word: Experience.

I prefer matching up display card brands because it's self defence. Hell, I wouldn't recommend using two network cards of different brands on the same system either. Too many chances for driver bugs to cross-pollinate in both examples.

Been there, done that.

As for the problem with AVI_IO, it probably is the AIW or its drivers. I've seen enough of ATI cards and their buggy drivers to suite me forever.

Been there and done that too.

Dr. Mordrid

[This_Idiot]

Also saves the "it's the other cards fault" problems that you are guaranteed to get should you find a problem. Not saying that it can't be done, or even that it isn't a viable solution. Just that you'll be on your own if you do encounter problems (officially).

[wkulecz]

T_I

And how exactly would this be different from the "its the other card/MB/chipset" excuses we get from the ninnies writing and supporting the drivers for just about any other card or device?

Doc,
My experience with multi-mon has been very good using certified drivers and a motly assortment of cards in both win98 and w2k.
I wish everything else associated with windows would work this well, but then I've never tried a non-certified driver as the secondary. I have used win95 drivers on win98 as primary with a certified driver and card as secondary and had no problems despite this being a "goofy" combination. Since you only get pretty minimal features on the secondary cards, it makes no sense to put the "better" card as secondary except for a workaround with broken motherboards that won't disable the on-board video -- I've pushed the envelope pretty hard here.

I'd like to hear actual examples of cards and driver versions that didn't play multi-mon on win98 or w2k -- especially with certified drivers for the secondary card!

I avoided the ATI RAGE/RAGEII problems because I was warned about it beforehand, so its really hearsay to me, but since ATI had instructions on working around it on their site when win98 came out, I figure there must have been something to it. But this is my counter example to the "stick to one brand" advice and basis for my qualifier "unless both cards use exactly the same driver".

This is also why I'm a bit distressed by the problems with the ATI AIW-Pro w2k capture driver. It has MS certification (it was shipped on the CD!) but its been the only reliable way to crash w2k for me!

--wally.

[Riddek]

Thanks for the info, Doc.

I took a second look at the Marvel and discovered it's more robust than I originally thought! From the various reviews I read a few questions popped up and I was wondering if you (or anyone else) could clarify.

1)The Marvel captures in a Matrox proprietary MJPEG format. Can industry standard programs such as Adobe Premiere import this format?

2)One reviewer claims that you can either have the break out box OR a second (TV) monitor connected to the card, not both simultaneously.

3)Another reviewer claims that DVD(MPEG2) playback on the Marvel really taxes the CPU. Does that mean I should avoid working on huge Photoshop files or having a few applications open while playing a DVD?

4)If I remember correctly (from previous posts) MJPEG captures individual frames as opposed to keyframes and transitions with MPEG or MPEG2. Does this mean I can edit each frame and do all kinds of neat effects like chroma key and compositing animated 3D objects, etc.?

Thanks for your time.
Riddek.

ps-anybody wanna trade a Millennium G200 AGP card for a Millennium G200 PCI?

[Riddek]

Errr... I mean I HAVE a Mill G200 AGP card that I want to trade for a Mill G200 PCI card. It's late..........

[wkulecz]

I think your reviews have mangled features of the G200 and G400 marvels. I have the G200 Marvel. Without the slighest hesitation I say get the G400 Marvel. What little price difference I've seen is not worth what you don't get with the G200. Dual head clone is a key feature the marvel lacks. I think DVD playback is much improved on the G400 as well.

MJPEG edits fine, but if the Marvel works with Premiere or not depends on your definition of "works". It does work well with Media Studio Pro, but some report it works better with 5.2 that 6.0 due to some timeline playback issues.

I'd have upgraded to a G400 Marvel if Matrox had decent w2k support. With the newest MSPro6 DVpatchII my Pyro is working well enough that analoag capture cards are quickly becomming moot for me. Although I'm still in need of a good video/tuner single slot solution for my non-editing system due to a shortage of slots :-(

--wally.