My Sony V801 is history, opinions please on the Sony DCR-TRV11 MiniDV camcorder

[Patrick]

Hmmm.... I didn't expect to be in the position of looking at new camcorders for a while yet, but **** happens. My back door was kicked in several nights ago while I was out , and among other things, my trusty Sony CCD-V801 Hi8 camcorder disappeared. I've never had to deal with my insurance company previously for a break in at home, so I'm not quite sure what the process is. I have two questions. One is in regard to proving the value of the stolen camcorder, and the second is in regard to opinions on a replacement.

1) I no longer have the original bill of sale for my departed camcorder, although I can prove to the insurance company that I owned it because I did find a couple of repair bills. My question is- Does anybody (who might have one) recall what the CCD-V801 sold for (preferably in Canada) when it first came out? I believe it was around $2000(Cdn), but I would like to make sure that I'm not underestimating what it was worth when it was new. This unit was Sony's top of the line consumer camcorder in it's prime, and I want to make sure that I am fully compensated by the insurance company. (Heck, I've certainly paid enough in insurance premiums over the last 20 years!)

2) There have been several threads here regarding choosing a new camcorder over the last few months. However, I don't believe that anyone has ever mentioned the Sony DCR-TRV11. This is a single chip MiniDV camcorder in the $2000(Cdn) price range that appears to have some impressive features. I expect to be teased about this by certain forum regulars because of my defense of the Digital8 format , but I have to admit that the specs on this MiniDV model are much superior to any D8 camcorder. (Granted, it costs more also.) Here is the blurb on this camcorder from the Canadian Sony site-

*Mini DV Format: Mini Digital Video format produces superior quality images with CD quality audio.
*680k pixel CCD with Advanced HAD: Advanced Hole Accumulation Diode Technology reduces video noise by 50% when shooting dark objects or in dark lighting conditions.
*Carl Zeiss Lens: a world famous German lens respected by professional photographers produces superb colour reproduction and contrast means that the incredible Zeiss lens performance, with the MiniDV format, records images with amazing crispness and clarity.
*120x Digital Zoom (10x Optical): to really get in close to the action.
*VGA Still Picture: capture VGA quality digital still pictures that can be stored on Memory Stick with JPEG compression.
*Memory Stick Slot: record digital still images on Memory Stick removable IC recording media. You can also transfer portions of your video tape recordings as digital still images to Memory Stick. Once downloaded to Memory Stick media, you can easily transfer these images to a personal computer using the supplied Memory Stick Serial Port Adaptor, an optional MSAC-PC2 Memory Stick PC Card Adaptor or MSAC-FD2M or MSAC-FD1B Memory Stick Floppy Disk Adaptor.
*Memory Stick/PC- Application Accessories Supplied: 4MB Memory Stick, Serial Cable, PictureGearTM 4.1 Lite Software (will support Windows 95/98, 98 Second Edition, NT4.0).
*STAMINA 11 Hours: recording time between recharges (actual performance may vary due to external temperature and camcorder operation, etc).
*12/16-bit PCM Digital Stereo Recording System (12-bit AudioDub).
*Progressive Shutter System: the combination of the interlace scan CCD and newly employed mechanical shutter lets you shoot both fields (Field A and B) at the same time, so you can record clear pictures without any shaking effect.
*3.5" Precision LCD Monitor (184k): use the high-precision LCD monitor as a viewfinder to shoot various angles while watching the screen - also ideal for instant playback.
*Colour Viewfinder (113k).
*Super SteadyShot: individual sensors and active prisms in front of the camera's lens detect the camera's movement and compensates for it, resulting in a steady picture even when the camera is jarred.
*Digital Program Editing: up to 20 programs can be edited with i.LINK interface and you can record on Sony's DV/Digital8 and other DV cameras or VCRs.
*Playback Zoom: zoom in on a recorded image (moving or still) from a video tape to 2x the size while the video tape is in playback or pause mode using the playback buttons on the camcorder.
*Super NightShot 0 Lux: records images in total darkness - the shutter speed automatically changes between 1/60-1/4 so that you can record a brighter picture. Images are created by the reflected IR rays bouncing back into the camcorder from subjects in total darkness.
*Signal Conversion Function (from Analog to Digital): lets you convert an analog signal to a digital signal from an analog camcorder or VCR.
*i.LINK (DV In/Out): quickly connect your camcorder to other digital A/V equipment and personal computers with a single connection (IEEE1394 Digital Interface).
*Cassette Memory.
*Analog In: connect analog A/V devices.
*Super Laser Link for Wireless Playback: uses its built-in infrared transmitter to send audio and video signals to Sony's optional IFT-R20 wireless A/V receiver at a distance of up to 8 metres.
* InfoLITHIUM Battery System (M-series): the battery talks to the camcorder to let you see exactly how much battery life you have left for recording and playback.
*Intelligent Accessory Shoe: connect many accessories quickly and easily.
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I'd just like to mention that Super SteadyShot appears to be an optical image stabilizer unlike the regular SteadyShot, which is the inferior electronic type of image stabilization. No, I'm not trying to flog Sony products. I just thought this would make it easier for everyone to see what this camcorder offers and then to express an opinion.

So, any comments on the TRV11? Any suggestions as to the original retail price of my stolen V801 camcorder? Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 15 August 2000).]

[This_Idiot]

Hi Patrick,

First, I'm really sorry to hear about your problem. It happened to me a couple of years back (not my cam, but all of my PC gear plus some irreplaceable jewellry).

I don't know how insurance varies between Canada and UK, but "all" I had to do was prove ownership (purchase invoice best, but even manuals etc would do). They decided the replacement value themselves (new for old policy), but I have to say that they were all fair valuations. After that, they either offered to replace equipment themselves (they have agreements with major suppliers with a discount) for common components (TV for instance), and cash for items that they don't have purchase agreements to cover (PCs, video equipment).

As I said, the assessor was more than fair and was quite prepared to accept substitute prices for obsolete equipment based on recent adverts for "similar level" equipment in the consumer press.

I hope you have as much luck as we did, it's bad enough having the gear stolen without having to wrangle over value as well.

[Patrick]

Thanks for the sentiments, Chris. My concern is that the insurance company might insist that they'll only pay up to the value of a current Hi8 camcorder. I believe that this wouldn't be fair because even with inflation, Hi8 camcorders are worth half of what I paid six(?) years ago. One reason for this is because all of the features have been stripped from them. It's the D8 and MiniDV camcorders that have all the bells and whistles now. I definitely do NOT want another Hi8 camcorder.

I may be concerned about the insurance company for nothing, but as I stated earlier, I haven't been down this road before...

[This_Idiot]

Well all I can do is wish you luck and hope that your insurance company works in a fair manner. Again I don't know what the score is over there, but here you can argue the toss to a minor extent and the ntake it to the ombudsman if you aren't satisfied - although this was never necessary in my own claim.

New for old should be what it says, an equivalent market position replacement for your loss. Insurance companies tend to be a law unto themselves, so all you can do at this stage is to read up on your consumer rights under Canadian law and insist on them if it becomes necessary - which hopefully it won't.

[Patrick]

I'm almost disappointed that the Doc or Brian haven't taken this opportunity to kid me a little in regards to my interest in a MiniDV camcorder...

[Laurie]

Hi Patrick,
Hope you get a better result from your insurance company than I did, although you camcorder was certainly much newer than mine when mine met the floor up close and personal. Mine was an old RCA full size VHS and after all was said and done I hardly had enough for a bottom of the line VHS-C and that ended getting spent on a new mattress --- arrrrgh!! Well maybe not 'arrrrgh' but I was a litle disappointed; mattresses are good for somethings . After being camcorderless for almost a year now I really miss it and have been watching this forum and others for replacement suggestions once I save the money. I look forward to hearing about what you finally decided.

Laurie

[Dr Mordrid]

Patrick;

Just didn't feel like kicking a dog that's down, that's all

Dr. Mordrid

[Brian Ellis]

Patrick

Well, you really did ask for it, but I'll refrain from snide remarks

I don't know the camera in question but it sounds - on phosphors - to be quite good. However, if you can chip in (pun intended) a few extra bucks then you won't regret getting one with another couple of CCDs.

On the whole, my experience with insurance cos. has been catastrophic. The only decent payback I got was when a laptop decided to try going down two flights of stairs with the aid of a Mr. Newton. All my other experiences have forced me to conclude that most insurance companies are sharks. The worst case happened to me in Switzerland. In 1986, catalytic converters were made obligatory and, because surrounding countries did not have lead-free fuel widely available, I decided to buy an uncatalysed vehicle just before the ruling came into effect. I paid SFr 22000 for a Camry. Driving it back from its free 500 km screw-tightening service, a 28 ton truck decided it didn't like the look of it and pushed it 50 m along the road until it broadsided the car into a lamppost on the central reservation: total write-off (luckily, I walked away without a scratch, after crawling through the sun roof). My fully comprehensive value to new insurance washed their hands of the affair, because the police reported that the truck driver was 100% to blame and it was his insurance that should pay. He had bare legal minimum insurance and, after several months of wrangling, paid me SFr 16,000, their estimated 'venal' value of my brand new SFr 22,000 car. In the meanwhile, I had bought a new Camry, identical spec, except that it had the mandatory catalytic pot which pushed the price up to SFr 26,000. I took legal advice on the affair and was told that, under the legal system, I didn't have a leg to stand on and that I should consider myself lucky to have got away with a loss of only SFr 11,000 (the odd 1,000 being my lawyer's fees), just half the value of my car. Needless to say I changed the insurance co. illico presto. I've had some other minor mishaps where insurance cos. have squirmed out of their reasonable dues. Once was when an unknown vehicle demolished a garden wall: because the culprit could not be traced, the insurance guys decreed that the purpose of the 200 year old stone wall (1 m high) was to keep casual intruders out of the property and it was sufficient to replace the demolished length (about 5 out of 25 m) with chain link fencing. This would have cost 1/6th the cost of rebuilding the wall. Etc. etc.

I hope only for you that Canadian companies are better than others I've had dealings with.

------------------
Brian (the terrible)

[Laurie]

Sorry Patrick, you were looking for camcorder advice and I have none to give. Doc and Brian are the experts. But given Brian's misadventures, I think this is where we extoll the fantastic advantages (cough,cough,sputter) of a government run auto insurance company. Brian, you would never have the same problems (oh yeah) if you lived in B.C. where it is mandatory to carry at least auto liabilty insurance provided by the wonderful (cough,cough again) I.C.B.C. (Insurance Corporation of British Columbia) otherwise known as IckyBicky. All kidding aside, for all its faults, ICBC would not have screwed Brian around like its Swiss counterpart did. (I had to say that, my brother-in-law works for ICBC ).

Laurie

[Patrick]

Brian, sorry to hear that you had such a negative experience with the insurance company and your car. As Laurie has pointed out, here in British Columbia we are all forced to insure our cars with the same auto insurance company which happens to be a provincial government monopoly. Home insurance is another matter though, and we are free to choose from different private companies, much the same as the rest of the free world. Whether or not the insurance company I'm dealing with is fair or not remains to be seen. The company is Citadel, and I'll certainly report here if they screw me around so that others can avoid them. However, hopefully they'll be fair...

Laurie, I'll be mentioning in this thread what it is that I end up getting to replace my stolen Sony V801. A lot depends on how the insurance company evaluates the worth of that camcorder. They obviously can't replace it with a new (identical) one, so it will be interesting to see what they regard as a current replacement for it.

[Patrick]

Well, I went the whole nine yards and got a Sony DCR-TRV900 as the replacement for my stolen camcorder. I did my homework regarding features as I wanted to retain having full manual control of shutter speed, iris, gain, and white balance. The insurance company was very fair, and after I finish shoring up my home's defenses, I'm looking forward to using this 3 CCD camcorder.

I have more to say in my choice of camcorder here:

http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum2/HTML/004717.html