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I can't resist posting this camcorder...
...check out the price:
Jerry Jones
...check out the price:
Jerry Jones
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OK I'll bite, I don't get it.
Is it supposed to be a bargin? or absurdly expensive?
Its a form factor I don't like and you can get low-end Canon or Sony models for the same, maybe a bit less.
1/6th inch CCD would probably be really bad in low light.
My first camcorder was a Samsung video8 -- went in to buy a webcam to play around with and found a closeout 8mm camcorder for only about $50 more. It didn't hold up very well, but I did get some video I want to keep with it -- its what got me started on editing. Based on this experience Samsung camcorders would generally be pretty low on my list.
--wally. -
It doesn't surprise me a bit that you don't get it, Wally.
But here's the latest www.pricegrabber.com rundown for this model:
See?
The lowest price on PriceGrabber is $549.95 at B & H.
The price listed at the link I posted is a full $100 lower:
Oh, prove to me you're not 'ALL TALK' and no 'FACT.'
List one Canon or Sony model with a 680,000 pixel CCD with the same feature set for the same amount of money.
I dare you.
:-)
Actually, I'll save you the trouble.
1. Canon Elura 40MC with 680,000 pixel CCD:
Lowest price: $619
2. Sony DCR-TRV18 with 680,000 pixel CCD:
Lowest price: $576.99
Jerry Jones
Last edited by Jerry Jones; 26 December 2002, 18:06.Comment
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The link no longer goes to the camcorder.
Must've sold them all.
That was quick.
But their price on the SC-D86 isn't bad, either:
Last edited by Jerry Jones; 27 December 2002, 11:29.Comment
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OK you're claiming its a great deal. I've owned one Samsung camcorder, it'd take a lot more than this to get me to try another.
It barely made it past the warrenty period with light use. My Canon and Sonys have more than doubled their warrenty period and are still doing fine with much greater use.
J and R, I've done business with since before there was a web. They are reliable and generally have good prices.
You don't think 680,000 pixels in a 1/6th" CCD is a serious compromise? or was that a misprint? My old Canon ZR10 has 460,000 in a 1/4" CCD and its low light performance is poor.
Buy whatever you like. For me it's be a no brainer to pay extra for the Sony or Canon since my past experience with a Samsung camcorder was pretty poor, but then I wouldn't buy anything with that "boxy" form factor either. YMMV.
Personally, I'm only intrested in 3-CCD camcorders right now. I'm waiting for news on the Sony VX-3000 before deciding, the VX-2000 is my choice so far, but I'm debating if going a bit higher for the PD-150 will be worth it to me or not. I want the best low light peformance I can get within my budget -- B&H's price on the PD150 is about the upper limit -- I'm open to other suggestions.
OTOH, once I see the new Kodak DCS 14n, 13.8 Mpixel full-frame 35mm still camera, I may postpone my video upgrade and get it instead as I continue to do more still than video.
--wally.Comment
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Wally wrote:
>OK you're claiming it's a great deal
NO.
Wally, I'm simply offering it as another option others may wish to consider.
I had a JVC GR-DVM5U mini DV camcorder that literally quit working for no apparent reason.
I don't recommend that particular JVC model, based on my experience.
But I have to admit it's possible I was simply unlucky and got a bad apple.
I'm not going to lay a 'blanket' indictment on JVC and infer that 'all JVC products are crap.'
So I don't think your experience with Samsung necessary means 'all Samsung gear is crap.'
It's just one more brand to consider.
Nothing more.
Nothing less.
As for your comment about the 1/6 inch CCDs:
You seem to be very proud of the fact your Canon ZR10 has a 460,000 pixel CCD that is 1/4" in size.
Are you aware that Canon *also* dropped the size of all Canon ZR series CCDs to 1/6" starting with the ZR40 introduced earlier this year?
Look... nobody has done *any* scientific testing to *prove* this industry move from 1/4" single CCDs to newer, 1/6" single CCDs is resulting in any loss of visual quality.
If you can list one... just one Web page... any test that proves that contention, I'll be converted and I won't be skeptical of you naysayers.
Sure... the move toward smaller CCDs suggests - at first thought - that the image quality might suffer.
But has anybody done any objective testing to *prove* that?
I've searched and searched for any objective testing on this issue.
Haven't found a single thing.
Wally also wrote:
>For me it's a no brainer to pay extra for Sony or Canon
For you, Wally; for YOU.
Fine.
But don't attack a post that gives others the option of making up their own minds.
There may be others out there who might appreciate saving one or two hundred dollars and maybe they'll get just as reliable performance from the Samsung as they would from JVC or Canon or Sony.
The reviews here are positive:
So can't you admit there are individuals out there who are happy with their Samsung purchases?
As for three-chip camcorders, I've been using a Sony DCR-VX1000 since 1997!
You're preaching to the choir, Man!
The image quality of my Sony three-chipper beats the image quality of every single chip camcorder I've tested so far.
Better clarity; better color saturation.
But three-chip camcorders can't be had for $450, either.
So my post was aimed at people who might - just maybe - be on a budget.
Fair enough?
Geez.
Jerry Jones
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The dynamic range and sensitivity of a CCD cell is proportional to its area as is the cost. This is fundamental for all makers. Reduce the pixel size to get more "resolution" you lose sensitivity but cost will be about the same for the same total sensor area. Reduce the area and increase the resolution you get a double whammy. Faster lenses can help but my ZR10 is F1.8-2.9 meaing a factor of 2-4 is about all thats practical at a rather large increase in size, weight and cost for the optics.
CMOS sensors are cheaper to make but are noiser at the same pixel cell size. I don't think they've made it into video cameras yet, but they will probably be the only way to get full frame 35mm sensors at a price that's tolerable.
rec.photo.digital has no shortage of people complaining that their new 5 Mpixed digital camera is "noiser" than their 3 Mpixel one was.
I was happy with my Samsung camcorder while it worked, problem was it stopped working before I'd say I got good value from it. Do you feel lucky? Warrenties are too short.
My Canon ZR10 was a "refurb" for $350 at Fry's. IMHO, the tighter the budget, the better off you are sticking with major brands and looking for model closeouts or factory reburbs.
Its the ratio of happy to unhappy users that counts. I'm sure you can find people that would not be happy with a VX2000, but I doubt you or I would be amoung them!
--wally.Comment
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I'd settle for a Panasonic DVX10, but a DVX100 or DVX200 would be a lot better
Dr. MordridDr. Mordrid
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An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.
I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fpsComment
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I have news for you, Wally.
Samsung now *is* a "major" brand... whether you like or not.
1. They're FIRST in the manufacture of CDMA cell phones.
2. They're FIRST in the manufacture of DRAM memory chips.
3. They're FIRST in the manufacture of LCD and CRT monitors.
They employ more than 64,000 people worldwide.
Yes, Samsung is a new presence in the digital camcorder market.
But in that regard, you aren't exactly on target with your mention of Canon, either.
If you want to see some information about who is really on top...
...check out the following table that clearly demonstrates that Sony's *retail shelf presence* (35%) leads the others by a wide margin...
...PANASONIC (27%) is a significant SECOND...
...followed by JVC (20%)...
...followed by CANON (14%)...
...followed by SHARP (4%)...
But keep in mind this is a moving target that is changing with each passing month.
If Samsung can sustain lower prices and demonstrate reliability (which you still haven't successfully challenged), Samsung will gain significant market share.
That's simply the way capitalism works.
By the way, in addition to the Sony DCR-VX1000 three chipper that I use at work...
...I own a Canon ZR20...
...I also own a Panasonic PV-DC152...
...so far they're both great.
Would I be willing to give Samsung a shot?
You bet.
Jerry Jones
Last edited by Jerry Jones; 27 December 2002, 19:06.Comment
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And you never know how fast fortunes can change in this industry. Look at what happened to Sony's DVD player business when APEX showed up in the US.
One year Sony was #1 in the US market with APEX #5. The next year APEX took over a lot of Sony's market share (and a few other companies) and ended up 2002 #1 with ~$1 billion in sales, and at their price point that's a lot of DVD players. Sony is now #2.
Much of this, of course, is because APEX decks will play just about anything and have a pretty darned good feature list as well.
Dr. MordridLast edited by Dr Mordrid; 27 December 2002, 19:52.Dr. Mordrid
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An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.
I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fpsComment
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That's for certain, Doc.
I bought an Apex AD-1100W DVD player at Wal-Mart for around $50 and it works like a charm.
Apex has also entered the TV set business...
...their prices are attractive, too!
Jerry Jones
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Yup....and they're selling 16:9 TV's at bargain prices too. Too bad they're projection and not plasma/led....yet
Dr. MordridLast edited by Dr Mordrid; 27 December 2002, 22:13.Dr. Mordrid
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An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.
I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fpsComment
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Guys, I don't know about you, but Korean products remain a cheap alternative to the high end products produced by Japan.
No offence to any Korean MURCers, but I would rather buy a product with "Made in Japan" stamped on the back.
Now this Samsung DV camcorder may be a good entry level camera, but nothing more! and I don't care if it has gigpixel CCD's
Cheers,
ElieComment
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Elie,
Nobody here has claimed the Samsung is anything more than an entry-level camcorder.
In fact, that was the point of the original post.
Regarding your statement linking 'high end' to 'Japanese' brands...
...again...
I had a JVC (Japanese) GR-DVM5U that simply died without warning.
High end?
Heh, heh.
Who are you kidding?
I should also mention that I had a Sony (Japanese) Walkman that fell apart like a cheap toy less than 12 months after I purchased it.
So applying a blanket 'High End' label to anything MADE IN JAPAN is simply your personal value judgement.
It's fine for you to have an opinion...
...as long as you refrain from shoving it down my throat... fair enough?
In the meantime, I'm willing to keep an open mind toward the Samsung brand until I see something more convincing than mere negative personal value judgements against anything manufactured in Korea.
Cordially,
Jerry Jones
Last edited by Jerry Jones; 27 December 2002, 22:42.Comment
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