Considering changing my NLE

[funky-d-munky]

I have used Premiere for a few years, although I am no pro.
After seeing the raves of the Video Vegas codec, I dercided to check it out. I was determined not to like it, but I kept saying "Wow this is fast", and "Oh, cool!" a lot. All be it I have only just played with it for a short time, but Premiere seems klunkie compared to it.
I like to do advanced functions in After Effects, so I'm just looking for a good and fast editor.
I know there are a lot of MediaStudio Pro users here and maybe I will consider it when 7.0 is released. A friend works at a local film school and said he would give me his copy of Vegas as he doesn't use it (He gets versions of all video software but the school uses Final Cut Pro) So for now it is between Premiere 6.5 and V V 3.0

As I see it now:
Premiere= I already know it, I have many books on 5, 6, & 6.5
Vegas Video 3= Better codec, better audio tools, seems faster.

Can anyone give me their thoughts on the benefits of either package? Am I going to have any problems with intergration with After Effects?
Thanx Funky

[Brian Ellis]

I've never used Vegas Video but I have used MSP and Premiere. I really do dislike Premiere (last v tried was 6). MSP 6.52 is streets ahead for most things, but MSP 7 is more streets ahead of 6.52, believe me, in most respects. It still has some bugs that need clearing up, but it will be worth waiting for.

[funky-d-munky]

hmmmmm.
How did I know I was going to get votes for MSpro no matter what. ;>)
Does the current MSpro have realtime previews.
PS- Please no comparisons with MSpro 7, it isn't available yet.

If anybody wants, I'll gladly hear a three-way MSpro 6.5, Premiere 6.5, Video Vegas 3.0

All replies are app.
funky

[Dr Mordrid]

I have use both MSPro (versions 5.0 to 7.0...I'm a beta) and Premiere 6.5 on my RT.X100 rig.

MSPro 6.5 has realtime previews to its own Preview window, much like in Premiere 6.5 but much better. Premiere 6.5 cannot do realtime previews of many things that MSPro 6.5 can.

In terms of use it's hands down: MSPro 6.5 or 7.0 are much easier and intuitive to use than Premiere. With the new features of 7.0 this difference gets extended by leaps and bounds.

Check for the 7.0 screenshots I've posted here plus the compilation I posted to ABCDV.com.

I'd be very careful about going with Vegas Video since Sonic Foundry is in major financial trouble. They've been selling off big chunks of the company and are in danger of being delisted from the stock exchange. Not good.

In addition to that my use of Vegas leaves me cold. The interface is, to me, cryptic and there are major gaps in its functionality vs. the old timers like MSPro and Premiere. It does, however, have some nice audio handling features so if you're doing music videos...

Dr. Mordrid

[wkulecz]

I have Vegas. There is a lot to like. Showstopper for me is their Hardware-locked WPA-like activation scheme. I'll not be buying into any such scheme.

I got took, when SF basically lied to me and said the CDROM version was self-contained and needed no net or Email activation. What they didn't tell me is the CDROM versions are buggy to the point of being broken and once you've downloaded the update you have the WPA-like activation required version.

They do have very much better quality control than Ulead, with I think, 8 build versions for VV2 and so far only 3 for VV3. But this activation scheme is why I won't use XP, and now Vegas. YMMV.

--wally.

[funky-d-munky]

What codec does MSpro use?
What got me to look at V V 3.0 to start with was the raves about its codec. I lost my registration info for the MainConcept codec that I used to use with Premiere, and the MS DV codec bites a**.

The Canopus forums are all Video Vegas, Murc is all MSpro, and the rest of the world is Premiere. You guys are starting to sway me.
Doc, would you use Premiere if it wasn't bound to your RTX-100? And does the RT-100 make Premiere the best and worth using?
funky

[IM_Riktar]

I'll throw my vote in for MSPro. I have been using it since version 2.5 with my Rainbow Runner. Most intuitive piece of NLE software I have ever tried. As a matter of fact I find it easier to use then Ulead's "lesser" version - Videostudio.

I have tried Vegas 3.0 and while I do like alot of it's features I absolutely hate it's moving paths/overlay tools. And as Wally pointed out, the "Call us if you re-install" scheme leaves me a bit worried for the future.

In terms of codecs: Yes the Vegas codeoc is VERY GOOD. But the Mainconcept DV codec is just as good.

MSPro uses the M$ codec which is horrible. That's why I bought the Mainconcept one for DV Work in MSPro 6.5.

Never tried Premeire since I have been more than happy with Ulead's products over the years.

[funky-d-munky]

Hey thanks guys. I think I will stick with Premiere and maybe try out MSpro 7 when it is settled in. There seems to be little in the way of 3rd party books writen for it though.
Doc, are you caught in a Matrox vs. Ulead pickle?
;>)
funky

[Dr Mordrid]

No; I'm just a royal pain in the arse to Matrox's PM's who constanly have to put up with me "hinting" at getting MSPro drivers for the RT.X100

Actually I do switch between the two programs rather smoothly, if unwillingly. There are things the RT.X100 can do that are just amazing, but on the other hand Premiere just SUCKS when you're trying to alpha channel image sequences or anything else beyond single *.tga's (32 bit *.avi's come to mind). Then MSPro kicks it's backside all over the place.

Premiere also has lousy memory management, slow-as-mud rendering, it crashes in flames if you accidently load in a DV type1 file (whatever happened to "error handling"?) and a bunch of other things that just make me want to scream....

Dr. Mordrid

[funsoul]

hmmm...I've just got to be doing something wrong. Been using premiere for years and started using mspro6.5 shortly after it was released.

Mspro6.5 is inifinitely more intuitive and much easier for even such (seemingly) simple things as adding titles. One of the main reasons for using it is that it's 'star' filter is pretty darn good for blocking out faces (anyone know of other ways to do this?).

My main issue is that the quality of the final mpgs from mspro look horrid compared to the ones that I can output from premiere (using either Panasonic's newest mpeg1/2 plugins, or, frameserved via avisynth>tmpgenc).

As many of you give mspro great marks, it makes me wonder if I'm doing something wrong? Any ideas?

-funsoul

win2kpro
g400-tv
27g ibm primary
2x80g maxtor (raid0)
promise fastrack100
p4 1.4ghz
1g ecc rdram

[Jerry Jones]

The ***CBR*** output from MEDIASTUDIO PRO is actually just as good as anything I've seen in other encoders.

(And MEDIASTUDIO PRO relies on the same basic MainConcept technology as Premiere.)

The ***VBR*** output from MEDIASTUDIO PRO has exhibited pulsating artifacts for many users.

The VBR problem has been fixed by a Ulead fix that hasn't been distributed widely, yet.

The files are here... on Doc's site...

http://digitalvideo.8m.net/mpgvout.zip

I think the reason for the limited distribution is directly related to the pending release of MEDIASTUDIO PRO 7.0, which has literally been absorbing the time of the Ulead staff in recent weeks.

I should add that not many people have been aware of the option available in MEDIASTUDIO PRO 6.5 (and 7.0) to tap into the more sophisticated MPEG encoding options.

To enable them, type "ADVANCE=1" in the c:\winnt\ulead32.ini file's [VIODRIVER] section.

But one really should not tamper with these settings without knowing how to use them (to avoid messing up one's encoded video in a big way).

My two cents,

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Hulk]

I guess I'll have to join this party!

I use Vegas Audio 2.0 for multitrack recording and mixing. It's great for that, but like VV, is not really set up, in my opinion anyway, for intuitive video editing. Audio mixing and video editing are different beasts, and different interfaces suit each best.

I'm using MS Pro and really love it. I can instant preview most of the things that I do with my P4 2.4 at near realtime frame rates. In addition, on my system it's really stable. But, VA and Sound Forge are both really stable as well so I guess that really isn't an issue.

If you decide to go with Ulead, I do not think you will be disappointed.

IM Riktar - I found VS to be harder to use than MS Pro too!

[funsoul]

Thanks Jerrold!
I'll give it a try