Any image advantage: analog capture over DV?

[Sillyname]

I love MJPEG.

I know that sounds a bit wierd but there's something about the way JPEG images compress their information that gives the video a film-like grain quality.

Since the DC30 Pro has dropped so dramatically, I've been tempted to buy it. 7 MB/s at 2.5:1 is not too shabby compared to the 5:1 DV codec.

And since I can't afford a DV deck, I'll be forced to master back out to the camera, causing extra wear. Will the DC30 Pro output any video you play back through it or is it dependent upon MJPEG as the Rainbow Runner is? Because if I want to save wear on my camera but capture through a 1394, I'm going to need to convert the DV video to MJPEG to output it from the computer to VHS; which would in turn create another generational loss. So does it make any sense to go with a 1394 card, in this case?

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Deep is not the root word of depression.

[Phil Pugh]

Problem is the 5:1 compression is already there on the tape when your camera records the action - so capturing it at 2.5:1 isn't going to get you anything - except fuller disks. Of course, if you are capturing live from camera then there may be some point.

Whilst you may like the grainy effect of MJPEG, it isn't half a problem when you try to create MPEG1/2 files unless you do some serious filtering.

If your original info is digital - sorry - but I just don't see the point of making it analogue to make it digital again.

[Sillyname]

Phil,

There's no such thing as an analog codec but I know what you're trying to say. However if you had carefully read my post, you would have noticed I said that converting to MJPEG would allow me to output to VHS directly from the DC30 Pro. As I am only aware of "cheap" 1394 cards that do not have analog outputs, I would have to output to my camera from one of those and then transfer the video to VHS from the camera.

My camera, being more expensive than a harddrive, would only have to be accessed to play video into the system, saving it from the wear of saving it after editing.

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Deep is not the root word of depression.

[Eric VanHeest]

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My camera, being more expensive than a harddrive, would only have to be accessed to play video into the system, saving it from the wear of saving it after editing.
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Can you not run a digital-in to the camera and have the camera analog-out without using any moving parts on the camera? I don't know beans about digital cameras, but I've used old analog cameras to convert composite video in to s-video out (and vice versa, although a converter for that way isn't hard to make at any rate), which just involved the camera being on and functional, not having a tape in it or anything (or even taking the lens cap off). Are digital cameras that much different?

[hippie91]

why not just get a dualhead card and output your video that way?

[Patrick]

This is not an image advantage, but I prefer the RR over say a Pyro card because of the RR's ability to make use of multiple monitors. Not only can information be spread over numerous computer monitors, but a NTSC (or PAL) signal can also be output to a TV monitor. I'm not sure about the RR-G, but with the RR-S this can be done during capture which allows one to immediately see what the video will look like (contrast, hue, etc) when output to tape. Compare this to being limited to only seeing the video image in a tiny part of a computer monitor while using a Pyro (or similar) card.

Of course there are many benefits of using a DV card...

[dchip]

I recently started capturing DV on firewire and I must say I don't miss the grainy analog look at all. I am using an inexpensive, but robust package called EZDV made by Canopus. I now have crisp titles, very soft slow dissolves, numerous other great transitions & alpha wipes, video on balls and cubes, etc., etc. All this with crisp DV. Plus, if I get nostalgic for that grainy look or want to deliberately do a grainy video I still have the G200TV installed and analog capture still works just fine. EZDV and G200 coexist on same mobo with no problems.

I can also introduce just a bit of grain by hooking mini dv camera to S-video in on G200. If I want whole-grain I'll just use the old 8MM camcorder. I do kind of wish the new hardware could do 16:9 aspect but I can live without it for now. There's bound to be some software I can use to convert Canopus 4:3 to 16:9 if needed.

Asus P3BF
PIII 450
Win98SE
128MB ECC
Matrox G200TV AGP
Canopus EZDV
Western Digital 18GB 7200 ATA-66
Maxtor DiamondMax 40GB ATA-66 7200rpm
Promise Ultra 66 HDD Controller
Soundblaster Live!
Acer CDRW & CDROM
Adaptec Easy CD Creator
Panasonic software MPEG encoder
TMPGEnc MPEG encoder
Canon Elura Mini DV

[Grigory]

Hi,
There is definitely no need to increase the number of bytes per frame, so MJPEG conversion is useless for DV. It is always possible to convert DV to MJPEG digitally in software, if you need.
As of TV preview, and camcorder wear, I definitely cannot see how its lifetime can decrease if you use only the chip on board of camcorder, but not mechanics. The electronics inside the camcorder has the same very long time and cannot be the reason of failure, well, in most cases...
Preview via camcorder is possible with Pyro and similar cards too:
You can use any analog capture card, including RR, to look live video from your camcorder on PC monitor.
To view video on TV screen you can use camcorder output directly.
While editing, TV preview is possible for Canopus DV raptor with Premiere 5 and MSPRO 5 and 6. I am not sure about another firewire cards, but it seems that it will be possible when the appropriate plugins will become available.

Concerning TV output of ready video without camcorder, you can do this with G400 dualhead, but for some (Canopus) codecs this requires preparation of DV video with reversed field order, which makes the TV output almost useless.
Another possible solution is to use H+ decoder (cheaper than DC30), prepare video in MPEG format and output it to tape.
Sounds strange, but this is the cheapest nonlinear editing solution:
1. Any non-compressing capture card, including some TV-in enabled video cards,
2. Software MJPEG compressor (Mainconcept codec can work in realtime with full size video at up to 3.5 MB/sec datarate on 500 Mhz celeron), or nonconpressed video capture.
3. H+ MPEG decoder
4. Software MPEG encoder: make I frame mpeg with 15 mbps or higher datarate, which is fast operation, or produce "normal" IPB mpeg directly for CD storage. You can use I frame mpeg for TV output from the hard drive. The conversion takes x2 or x3 time of video duration on LSX or Cinemacraft encoders.

The cost of video capture and TV output hardware for such configuration falls below 100 $, plus you get very good DVD playback capability.
The cost of hard drive, PC and software is the same as in the case of any other configuration, of course.

Grigory