EMedia Magazine DVD+R/DVD+RW Tests Reveal Incompatibilities

[Jerry Jones]

http://www.emedialive.com/r18/2002/bennett8_02.html

"Our test results here put DVD+R and DVD+RW short of DVD-R and DVD-RW when it comes to physical compatibility with current DVD devices and on low-cost blank media."

"Problems developed and, as was the case with the previous generation of DVD+RW recorders, physical disc compatibility didn't live up to the hype."

"Test results proved to be disappointingly hit and miss."

"For example, the written DVD+RW discs were incompatible with three of the nine set-top DVD-Video players and nine of the 18 DVD-ROM drives in the test (see table)."

"On the brighter side, DVD+R performance in the set-top DVD-Video players was decidedly better with the discs working in all devices."

"However, on the data front, the DVD+R discs could not be read in seven of the 18 DVD-ROM drives including, most surprisingly, four of seven recently purchased name-brand 16X models."

"By comparison, the written DVD-R discs worked in all the set-top players and failed in only three older-model DVD-ROM drives."

-EMedia, August 2002

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Hulk]

Is there some bias in this report or what?

ALL 9 players played the DVD+R burned discs.
ALL 9 players played the DVD-R burned discs.
Okay, no difference here.

In the + and 2 RW format for set top players each failed in three machines.
No difference here either.

DVD -R did better with the computers. Failed in 3 as opposed to 7 in R, and 7 as opposed to 9 in RW.

Seeing as how -R/RW has had a HUGE head start I think the results are amazing for the + format. I thought from what I've read that -R was much more compatible. I guess that the spinning advertising.

In addition, I've read A LOT more problems with flawless playback in the - format that +. If my disc plays in a machine, it's plays flawlessly the whole way through.

I really don't care which format ends up surviving, but if I were a betting man...

[Jerry Jones]

The DVD "+" format has already lost, in my opinion.

Evidence of that came just a couple of weeks ago when Sony announced that the new Sony DVD disc camcorders will *not* support DVD "+" format discs, but instead will support DVD "-" format discs.

Moreover, Sony's Vaio line of computers... both desktop and notebook... continue to feature DVD "-" drives and not DVD "+" drives.

That's the kiss of death for the "+" formats, in my opinion.

When Sony decided to sell VHS units in addition to Betamax units, that was the kiss of death for Betamax.

Moreover, the market share penetration of DVD-R in the ***OEM*** computer realm is estimated at 70 - 75% due to the early start of DVD "-" drives in all Apple (and Sony and Gateway and Compaq and other) computers that feature either the so-called 'Super Drive,' which is the drive made by Pioneer, or some variation of Panasonic's DVD drives.

The DVD "+" format got a late start (2001).

That was a fatal mistake.

HP (which now owns Compaq) supports DVD "+".

But Gateway supports DVD "-" and DVD-RAM.

The only market gains evidenced by the DVD "+" format drives are in PC ***AFTERMARKET*** drives.

This is why you see so many such drives on consumer store shelves such as CompUSA and Best Buy.

I did not interpret the results of the study in the same light.

We disagree, clearly.

I think the study results demonstrate that the DVD "+" formats do not achieve anywhere close to the level of compatibility that is advertised.

In fact, the FUNDAMENTAL SELLING POINT of the rebel DVD "+" alliance was the claim that their drives would result in IMPROVED compatibility and not WORSE compatibility.

What we're seeing - in this study - is clearly WORSE compatibility.

I must say I had a very upsetting experience today in connection with DVD "+" format drives.

In one division of my agency, a couple of self-proclaimed video 'experts' dismissed my early advice to be wary of the DVD "+" formats and they bought HP DVD200i drives.

Today they brought over two of their DVD+R discs that they had burned in their HP DVD200i drives.

*BOTH* DVD+R discs failed to play in my generic Samsung DVD-ROM drive that shipped with my Dell Dimension 8100 computer.

*BOTH* DVD+R discs also failed to play in my Panasonic DVD MULTI drive.

I am hoping they merely goofed up when they burned their video to the DVD+R discs.

I have asked them to repeat their test and this time to be more careful to follow the instructions in their burning software.

I am hoping their new test DVD+R discs will play successfully the second time around.

If they fail, I'm going to be a very unhappy camper.

And I'm going to assert firmly: "I TOLD YOU SO."

I hope this doesn't turn out to be the FIASCO it seems to be right now.

But I'm so fuming mad that we may have wasted about $600 on drives that don't offer the COMPATIBILITY that was their fundamental selling point in the first place.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Hulk]

Well, as I've said before, the + format has won for me because I'm successfully using it. I can see you're points, and you may be right. However, my +R and RW discs work perfectly on my Sony DVD player, great for checking DVD's before burning.

The computer compatibility issue for me really isn't an issue since my data DVD's are created for ME.

I guess my point is that I believe many users are like me and will find the + format a great choice. What about the technical merits of each format, I have read that the newer + format does have some advantages?

Anyway, it's not really a big deal. I'll probably end up buying a multidrive if I need both formats or to switch to "-." That said, it's hard not to stand up for your chosen format for some strange reason!!!

[Jerry Jones]

Truisms:

1. 100% compatibility simply cannot be achieved with today's
WRITE-ONCE DVD formats.

2. The DVD "+" group broke away from the DVD Forum and created the rebel "+" format based on one fundamental selling point:

That a 'better mousetrap' had been created by them with alleged,
near-universal compatibility.

3. Test results such as the ones I posted reveal the "+" group have clearly FAILED to live up to their hype.

In fact, the majority of published test results tend to support the
conclusion that the "+" formats, if anything, offer slightly LESS
compatibility than the "-" formats!

Ironically, the DVD format that offers the consumer the most
versatility, the most reliability, the best long-term durability, the
greatest ease-of-use is the format that so many pundits have
incorrectly pidgeon-holed as a 'specialized' data storage format...
DVD-RAM.

No... DVD-RAM doesn't play in the vast majority of consumer DVD
players.

But I would point out the WRITE-ONCE formats offer no guarantees in that regard, either!

No... DVD-RAM doesn't play in most generic DVD-ROM drives.

But I would point out the WRITE-ONCE formats offer no guarantees in that regard, either!

These days we're seeing the DVD market shift from DVD 'players' to DVD 'recorders.'

The DVD 'recorders' that are winning the market share battle are the ones that feature DVD-RAM and DVD-R recording capability in addition to the ability to play Hollywood DVD movies.

These are the machines from companies like Panasonic, Toshiba, and Samsung.

I believe DVD-RAM is quietly *gaining* presence in the consumer market in ways that are going to surprise the pundits.

DVD-RAM discs also offer amazing advantages on computers:

Of all the DVD disc formats, only DVD-RAM discs work like HARD DISKS!

No burning software is required!

Drag-n-drop.

Copy-n-paste.

What could be easier?

This drag-and-drop ease is a critical, ease-of-use benefit to
consumers.

It's also a critical ease-of-use factor for EMPLOYEES of various
organizations.

These organizations just need something that EMPLOYEES can actually USE.

They need something that works FAST and offers drag-and-drop,
copy-and-paste file storage SIMPLICITY.

...just like a hard drive.

I believe the pundits who compare the DVD scene with the CD scene (where write-once formats dominated) are incorrect.

There are key differences between what happened with CDs and what's happening with DVD discs.

They're not the same.

As for compatibility:

DVD-RAM, from a certain point of view, actually offers the BEST
COMPATIBILITY of all the DVD formats!

Think about it.

If an organization stipulates - in advance - that all drive
specifications *must* include support for cartridge-based DVD-RAM discs, then compatibility *within* that organization is virtually
GUARANTEED.

(And if files need to be shared *outside* the organization, they can be burned to DVD-R if the organization has had the wisdom to purchase combination DVD-R/DVD-RAM drives.)

On the other hand, if a CEO allows factions within his organization to put DVD into the context of a WRITE-ONCE, DVD-R vs. DVD+R battle, then that CEO is, in my opinion, a FOOL.

INCOMPATIBILITY will be the costly result of that kind of
intra-organizational fight.

DVD-RAM drives that support both bare and cartridge-based DVD-RAM discs have no trouble reading *any* DVD-RAM disc created on *any* other DVD-RAM device, in my experience.

Conclusion:

Compatibility within a DVD-RAM environment is actually greater than compatibility in a WRITE-ONCE disc environment.

Example:

DVD-RAM video discs created in DVD VCRs play in all cartridge-based DVD-RAM computer drives and vice-versa (using the DVD-VR method).

(In addition, DVD-RAM discs in Type 2 or Type 4 cartridges can be
removed and read by computer drives that only support bare DVD-RAM discs.)

Consequently, specifications governing purchases, if done properly, can GUARANTEE compatibility within a given organization!

It's ironic... to me... that the pursuit of fabled, WRITE-ONCE disc
compatibility correlates with much of the INCOMPATIBILITY that many organizations suffer as division heads with different opinions choose sides and do battle with each other.

My opinion, I admit, is a bonafide, CONTRARIAN point of view.

But if an organization wishes to ensure compatibility, I strongly
recommend IGNORING the conventional wisdom and test drive DVD-RAM drives, recorders and both bare and cartridge-based DVD-RAM media.

Any decision-maker who does so is going to be pleasantly surprised, in my humble opinion.

Please know I am merely a satisfied DVD-RAM user and I do not work for or have any association with any of the DVD-RAM manufacturers.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[KRSESQ]

In an ideal world, the intelligent and forward thinking user would embrace all three formats. Most of us don't have that luxury. I'm using DVD-R and I have yet to come across a DVD-ROM drive or stand-alone player that will not accept one of my disks (fingers crossed).

Which of these formats will emerge the winner 5 or 10 years from now, no one knows. As always, the end-user will have the final say.

Kevin

[gt40]

I purchsed my Sony dru500a basically due to the compatability question of the 2 formats - I could burn either '-' or '+'.
My stand-alone DVD player was EXTREMELY picky (Samsung M101) as it wouldn't even play 90% of the vcd's I created, and I wanted to be able to play any DVD I created on this unit.
To my surprise the dvd+rw sample included with the sony played flawlessly, as did the subsequent dvd+r discs that I purchased. They also played in any other dvd drive I tried (about 6 in total).
I have so far only used dvd-r for data as I don't feel like taking the chance on burning a DVD that won't play ( DVD's make lousy coasters - they scratch wooden surfaces ).

[keithm]

I am using DVD-r and I find no compatibility issues at all. If there is an odd glitch (and that is very rare) it is certainly preferable to tape VHS tape drop out, or tape damage that can render a VHS tape unusable. What should be of greater concern is the longevity of the formats and I guess no one knows the answer to that one yet!

[gt40]

Originally posted by keithm
I am using DVD-r and I find no compatibility issues at all. If there is an odd glitch (and that is very rare) it is certainly preferable to tape VHS tape drop out, or tape damage that can render a VHS tape unusable. What should be of greater concern is the longevity of the formats and I guess no one knows the answer to that one yet!

that's why I covered all my bases.

[Jerry Jones]

Well, I'm relieved.

The second time was the charm.

The DVD+R discs - this time burned correctly by those colleagues of mine - now play in my Panasonic DVD MULTI SW-9571 drive and in the Panasonic DMR-E20 DVD VCR.

Thank heavens.